Shifting Organizational Culture for Passionate Plays | Remy Meraz + Julian Lewis
Disclaimer:
The content shared is to highlight the passion and wonder of our guests. It is not professional advice. Please read our evidence-based research to help you develop your unique understanding.
💕 Story Overview
#MAGICademy S3E1, we had the great pleasure of meeting @Remy Meraz and @Julian Lewis, founders of Zella Life, a cultural shift engine with a mission to democratize coaching for underserved middle managers and create a paradigm shift within existing organizational systems. Our discussion revolves around creating psychological safety, fostering curiosity and childlike wonder, and promoting a culture of “playaholics” (trust me it is much more fun than workaholics).
Story Takeaways
Incorporating elements of childlike play can transform disagreements into opportunities for creative problem-solving and deeper understanding. By approaching conflicts with curiosity, compassion, grace, and resilience of a child, we can reduce tension, encourage innovative solutions, and make the resolution process more engaging and enjoyable.
Sustainable culture shifts start with champions who are influential talents who embody desired cultural values to drive positive change within an organization. These champions act as role models, communicators, and catalysts, bridging the gap between leadership vision and talent adoption of new cultural norms.
Perceiving the challenges to deal with obstacles as a game where we can keep playing to level up is a powerful reframing strategy to tackle difficult situations and potentially transform organizational cultures.
Remy & Julian’s MAGIC?
#ZellaLife, #CulturalShift, #UnderservedLeaders, #PsychologicalSafety, #Curiosity, #ChildlikeWonder, #Play,#DiversityAndInclusion, #HumanConnections, #GrowThroughChallenges
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00:00 Democratizing Coaching and Paradigm Shift
04:40 Seeking Champions for Culture Shift
06:56 Zella's Impact Story
09:49 Criteria for champion selections
11:41 Build a psychologically safe space to spark childlike wonder in adults
18:11 Shift perceptions to face challenges and shift cultures
22:11 Envisioning the Future of Technology and Human Connections
26:32 The Integration of AI and Extended Reality in Coaching and Personal Development
30:41 The Magic of Meeting Like-Minded Individuals
37:57 Embracing Curiosity, Compassion, and Grace for Growth
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The challenges of developing underrepresented leaders:https://youtu.be/PfTsaGHPtSE
Embrace conflict with curiosity, compassion, and grace:https://youtu.be/YDyoX3uJP8Q
What does it mean to truly hear each other? https://youtu.be/bDdqu4i76Ag
Identifying champions for a bottom-up culture shift in companies: https://youtu.be/ydUjBD3D2m8
Playaholic: Reframing Work-Life Balance: https://youtu.be/WQLT43kBtPc
The passion fuels our play at work: https://youtu.be/WD-utNT5oVs
AI-powered coaching helps us focus and make informed decisions: https://youtu.be/DSHWv79iBTQ
True definition of diversity: https://youtube.com/shorts/0ldIrzTXWzQ
Seeing challenges as a level-up game where we can collaborate across teams: https://youtu.be/WeC2ejDqcxc
The universe brings people together with MAGIC toward bigger missions: https://youtu.be/3dX0dCEV9Dw
The MAGIC of Keeping Childhood Curiosity in Adulthood: https://youtu.be/D_7WGd3eLcs
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Nguyen, N. (2021). The Fearless Organization: Creating Psychological Safety in the Workplace for Learning, Innovation, and Growth. The Learning Organization.
Croitoru, G., Florea, N.V., Ionescu, C.A., Robescu, V.O., Paschia, L., Uzlău, M.C., & Manea, M. (2022). Diversity in the Workplace for Sustainable Company Development. Sustainability.
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Remy Meraz and Julian Lewis, the dynamic co-founders of Zella Life, bring over four decades of collective expertise in building, developing, and leading high-performance teams across the globe. At the heart of their coaching platform lies a unique methodology steeped in emotional intelligence (EQ), relationship science, and behavioral psychology. This powerful blend of disciplines guides their approach, setting Zella Life apart in the realm of professional development.
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Jiani (00:00)
Welcome to MAGICademy Podcast. Today we have Remy and Julian, the founders of Zella Life, a cultural shift engine in the workplace.
Remy Meraz (00:10)
Thank you for having us. I love that. Cultural shift. Engine cultural shift. Love that.
Jiani (00:15)
Yes. we're very curious like how, why Zeila life?
Remy Meraz (00:19)
Yeah, so Zella Life was born from mine and Julian's lived experiences. We were working in corporate America once upon a time and lacked psychological safety to share some of the things that we were experiencing in the workplace. We didn't have mentors or leaders that look like us and therefore we weren't getting the same type of mentoring that our colleagues were getting. And then
the training that we were receiving was very cookie cutter and didn't meet our individual needs and what we found was that executive coaching was offered to executives but not to everybody else and ironically although we didn't know each other we both took the same action and that we went on our own and invested in executive coaching for ourselves.
And it was transformational for not only our careers, right, but also ultimately gave us the courage and the confidence to start our own company. Julian, do you want to add anything there?
Julian Lewis | Zella Life | COO & CoFounder (01:16)
Yeah, I mean, it was important to us. We understood that we had a lot of blind spots that had we not tapped into coaching, we probably would have spun our wheels and we could see how we could blame others instead of looking inward and identifying where we could actually do the work. And we recognized that it wasn't readily available for people.
And so that those two components come together and we decided to move forward and figure out a solve to democratizing coaching for executives.
Jiani (01:47)
That's amazing.
it feels like you're taking on a very heavy load. It's kind of like a big goal. And when we were talking about the culture, it's usually structural and it's like come with time, it's historical and it's such like a big, big gigantic task.
Remy Meraz (02:05)
Yeah, so what we're doing is solving a big problem, right? It is a big problem. And you touched on it, where we focus our energy and attention is on folks below the C-suite line, so like directors and below, because they are the most underserved workforce groups in America and the largest, right? You have your middle managers, you have your... Right.
Jiani (02:09)
Yes, it is huge.
Yeah, which is almost everybody.
Remy Meraz (02:27)
You have your middle managers, you have your diverse talent. And by the way, studies show that today we have more people of color in managerial roles than ever before in history. And so what's missing is there's a disconnect, right? And companies will tell you this, there's a big elephant in the room. Yes, we know we have the biggest challenges with these workforce groups, but we can't do it at scale.
And so we have figured out a way to do that at scale and build culture before, you know, typically what's been happening is that they built, people build culture from the bottom down and what we're doing is building culture from the bottom up. And it does seem like a big daunting task to take on, but what we have created is really special in it comes in the way we match folks because it's rooted in relationship science.
Julian Lewis | Zella Life | COO & CoFounder (02:57)
Thanks.
Remy Meraz (03:15)
and also in our coaching methodology, and then in the continuity and our programming piece. So those three things are the magic secret sauce that we have put together so that we can take on this big daunting task in a powerful way that can serve not only the individuals on an individual basis, right, but it's solving the company's problem and it's changing
team dynamics and organizational dynamics. And I'll let Julian share more about the culture.
Julian Lewis | Zella Life | COO & CoFounder (03:43)
Yeah, what I wanted to add is that it can seem huge, it can seem daunting, because if you zoom out and you start to look at all the moving parts, it can get overwhelming and complicated. But the truth of the matter is that there's a root cause and the root cause is what we focus on, is the foundation of our coachee is emotional intelligence. And so when you tap into emotional intelligence, you raise something, you raise self-awareness.
And that leads to raising social awareness, how we interact with each other, our interpersonal skills. And that is what allows us to be able to have the flexibility to do this work within these structures.
Jiani (04:22)
I like that. And I think in our previous call with you, Julian, you were talking about this culture piece and you're describing culture as different components. So if we were to kind of visualize the big gigantic concept of culture or workplace culture, what are some key components of the thing called culture?
Julian Lewis | Zella Life | COO & CoFounder (04:40)
Well, I can sum it up in three letters. DNA. It is your company's DNA. It is, that is what the culture is. And so the way that we identify is the company has to be clear on their mission. They have to be clear on what's important to them, what their drivers are. The key components of culture include behaviors, symbols and systems.
Jiani (04:46)
DNA.
Julian Lewis | Zella Life | COO & CoFounder (05:01)
that reflect the everyday actions, shared the rituals, what brings a company together. And so if you take a look at even how Zella was formed, we decided first to focus on our mission. And then we decided to speak to everyone we could about that mission and find people who were in alignment with us. And then they had to second, love what they do.
So first was the mission, second, love what they do, third, be good at it, which is usually the reverse of what most companies do. They look for people that have to be good at what they do. It's all about that part of it. And then they, hopefully they like it. And then if the salary is right, they can kind of force the mission into it. So we teach companies
Jiani (05:28)
Hmm.
Thanks for watching!
Julian Lewis | Zella Life | COO & CoFounder (05:47)
how to do it from a more counterintuitive approach, but that helps with alignment to create the shift. Now, once the organization understands that they have a mission, they understand that they need to identify people who align with that mission. Now, how do you shift culture within a company that already has a pre-existing culture? We look for the champions.
Jiani (05:50)
you
Hmm.
Hmm
Julian Lewis | Zella Life | COO & CoFounder (06:09)
We look for people that are open for personal development and we look across different levels of leadership. So we look for in the regular employee, the up and coming talent that's looking to grow to middle management, the middle manager and some of the directors. And in that mix of champions, we can help them to create results that create a buzz within the organization.
that buzz in the organization attracts more people that want to become a part of the movement. And when you create a movement, it starts with what we call the lone nut. It starts with the person who's serious about making a difference and then identifying the champions. And then through that smaller group, you're able to attract the larger group and create a paradigm shift within the organization.
Jiani (06:32)
Thanks for watching!
That's beautiful. And that reminds me, so far, what are some impact that Zellalab has created in terms of shifting culture, creating paradigm shift and elevating leaders within organizations?
Remy Meraz (07:09)
Well, there's been so many transformational stories, but just from a data perspective right off the bat, you know, there's another thing that's happening within organizations and that has come about since the George Floyd incident and also the rise of cancel culture and call out culture. And that is that since all of that has been happening.
there's what we call the walking on eggshell syndrome happening. And people are afraid to give honest feedback. What we're finding is in organizations that's pretty epidemic across the board where managers are afraid to give honest feedback to diverse talent. And what that's doing is creating a development gap, but also an advancement gap. And that has already been there, but now it's getting wider, right? And so,
With the folks that we've been coaching over the last several years, collectively, the talent that we've coached, 45 percent of them have gone on to get promotion offers, pay increase offers, and advancing in their careers, which is pretty significant. What it is, is we're helping individuals get out of their own way. But by working,
with us, we're creating a different level of psychological safety that allows folks to really let their walls down and really take part in doing the work at a thousand percent, right? And it's just a beautiful thing to see happen that these walls come down. All of the folks that we're coaching, they come back and say there's improvement in their leadership
Jiani (08:19)
Mm.
Remy Meraz (08:37)
their leadership abilities, brave conversations happening. All of those are in the 90%, 100% ranking, where now you see folks able to have brave conversations with their colleagues, with the leadership, with their direct reports. And so when you have that kind of psychological safety and you see people self-advocating properly for themselves, right?
Jiani (08:43)
Mm-hmm.
Remy Meraz (08:58)
That's what starts to create the shift in team dynamics, where you see collaboration improving with other groups, where you see the team strengthen collectively by them handling conflict that has arisen with other teams. And it has just been phenomenal as founders to watch this vision and this hypothesis that we had.
by creating this methodology and doing all the things we're doing to see that shift. So it's been incredible.
Jiani (09:26)
So wonderful. And it's very great to hear that with the coaching support, the talents are able to kind of go out of their shell and start to advocate for themselves, their teams, and hopefully asking for more resources to develop their particular team and initiative to better the organizational development and business services ultimately.
I'm curious, what are some criteria that you use to seek out those champions? how can we make that sustainable? Because it's kind of like,
grassroots how can we potentially initiate that, but also sustain to the tipping point of the culture shift. what's the art and science behind this.
Julian Lewis | Zella Life | COO & CoFounder (10:08)
Now that's a great question. I'm gonna start with the last part. How do you make it sustainable? Well, it's to really incorporate in the culture that when we identify people that we wanna bring on board with our company, that they are constant learners and they're open-minded and they already have a practice of growth and personal development.
Okay, so that's key. And if you're looking at companies now and how they're taking a look at people's resumes, you have to start there. Where are you focused on? Are you focused on someone who can grow and is really dialed in with soft skills? Are you only focused on the hard skills? So if it starts there, then we can start to bring in more people within the organization.
that are looking at always growing. And so that gives you the ability to go out and succeed. The other part is when you start with those that are champions across different levels of leadership, and you reward that as a company, well, that type of environment affects change because people will do more.
went towards the areas that get recognition within an organization, which means a lot of your accomplishments that you tout have to be around growth. It have to be around being open to be courageous. They have to be around collaboration. And so once you start recognizing the areas that you want to see more of, you will see people start to do more in the areas
Jiani (11:28)
Hmm.
Julian Lewis | Zella Life | COO & CoFounder (11:39)
because they're seeing that be the ones that are recognized.
Jiani (11:41)
Remy was talking about a safety, kind of a psychological safety space. And when we, in our first conversation, we also talked about, you know, the childlike wonder, the curiosity, and how everybody just has this innate ability to like...
wonder about this world, wonder about the place that they work, wonder about the people that they're serving together. So I'll be curious, Remi, how, what is childlike wonder? And how do we, as adults, foster an environment or a culture where childlike wonder can live and breathe and grow?
Remy Meraz (12:16)
Yeah, I love this question because, you know, we have a lot of fun at Zella Life. And I feel like we're modeling this really well, but because it's really about bringing in curiosity, approaching life, the workplace, our colleagues with curiosity. And this can especially serve us well when
There's conflict when we get triggered, right? And something as simple as someone says something instead of immediately wanting to like come at them, right? Or defend yourself or put them in their place, like call out culture and cancel culture is promoting. You can simply say something like, you know, Julian what did you mean by that? I'd like to understand better.
And that takes like the anger out of it, right? When we approach things with curiosity. But if we think back to when we were kids and the way classrooms are set up, right? Where it's a safe space where people can share ideas. And we had those days where everybody got to pick a day to share, you know, what was going on in your life or what you're working on or your project or whatever it is.
It's about creating those safe spaces. And what we used to do as kids and the way we used to approach, people in the neighborhood at our park or a playground, it's do you wanna play?
Jiani (13:33)
Yeah
Remy Meraz (13:33)
You know, when we spend most of our times at work, we want to play together. And, and I'll share something personal that happened to me last week. Uh, someone asked me, Oh, what did you do this weekend? And I said, well, I worked and I go about necessarily want to say work because I was creating, I had to create some content, right. And they said, Oh, of course you did because you're a workaholic. And I said, um,
No, actually I'm not. I said, um, I'd like to offer up a reframe around that. And I'll say I'm a playaholic. And here's, and here's why I said, first of all, I have really great work-life balance, I go, but here's the other part of it as, as a business owner, as an entrepreneur, especially, you know, when you're growing the company in the early stages or, you know, in growth mode. Yes. You're going to have to.
Jiani (14:01)
Play all I kind of like that
Julian Lewis | Zella Life| COO & CoFounder (14:17)
I'm free.
Remy Meraz (14:18)
work, you know, more than the average person, right? As you're building a company. But the reason I say it's play is because I have phenomenal co-founders and team members and we all show up to, you know, our work environment with our superpowers. And we each have superpowers that, and Julian's superpowers,
are the things I'm not so great at, right? And Marco and Josh, the-
Jiani (14:43)
What is Julian good at? Best at? What's Julian's place?
Remy Meraz (14:45)
Well, Julian is, I mean, Julian's what I call, I like to say a unicorn because he's a hybrid. He's a hybrid of, he's great with people, right? He can help me with the sales stuff, but he's great operationally and setting up systems and processes. That's not my strength, you know, skill set. Marco is great with that and finance and a bunch of other things, right? But.
My point being is that we all have superpowers. We all operate at the same speed and so we can execute really well. But the other piece of it, when you're working with team members and allowing them to soar with their superpowers, it allows me to soar with mine. And I get to focus on the things that I love to do and that I'm really great at, right? And they're doing the same thing.
And so when you're spending your time and spinning your wheels on the things that you don't like to do or that you're not really great at, that's when it feels like work. And don't get me wrong, we all have to do some things, right? Because we're not there on the, you know, like a big corporation, right? So we're wearing a lot of different hats. But at the end of the day, the majority of our time is spent on the things we're great at and the things we love to do. So therefore it feels like play.
And I love what I do. I love what we're building. I love our mission. I love our vision. I love our purpose. It feels like play. And that's that special place that we like to try to get people to is when they know what they're passionate about, what their purpose is. And when you get to play in that space or be in that space on a daily basis, it's not work anymore, right?
And that's where the childlike wonder comes in. We can go back to that feeling of being a kid and just playing.
Jiani (16:19)
for leaders out there who wanted to start to build a culture that supports that sort of productive play or purposeful play, how can we do that? And you mentioned about psychological safety, but how do we build a space where people are able to feel safe? Feels like again, a big topic.
Remy Meraz (16:36)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. Psychological safety is so critical, right? Because it is that safe space where people can share and get feedback, ask questions. That's the big thing is how can we ask questions or share my ideas? And what we see a lot of times is companies, you know, they have their goals, but people get caught up in the day to day and they're just going, going. So you have to be very intentional in scheduling, you know, those types of the...
type of time in creating the environment. But also you can do things like promote experiential learning. Maybe there's a, I gave a suggestion in an article I wrote, but maybe there's a DEI challenge or another type of challenge within the organization. Why not create a hackathon around it and get folks from all different teams to participate in it, which then gives you the opportunity to encourage cross-disciplinary collaboration.
Julian Lewis | Zella Life| COO & CoFounder (17:15)
Mm-hmm.
Remy Meraz (17:28)
co-creation with folks. When you get people from different teams, we talk about diversity, but like different age groups. So you're blending generations and allowing people to share the ideas and work on things together. You can do things like gamify, projects and to make it fun. And then try utilizing all the different emerging technologies that are out there.
And, you know, like Julian is so great at with the AI stuff and creating, you know, different tools that we're coming up with to you just in the business, right. And then he's showing me them, but that could be another way for people to help. Um, break down silos, which is what happens in organizations, but again, to create that childlike wonder, to create the form of play within an organization.
Julian Lewis | Zella Life| COO & CoFounder (18:04)
Ahem.
Jiani (18:11)
I love that. And when we are building that safety space, will psychological safety be the number one ingredient to activate that sense of wonder? Are there other elements that we also need to consider in addition to psychological safety that we can leverage to activate that sense of childlike wonder in all relations?
Julian Lewis | Zella Life| COO & CoFounder (18:31)
there has to be a shift. We spoke about shift often today and that's what it is. It's the...
The quicker results you see are based on not changing practices or necessarily changing your structure or your procedure, but it's changing perspective on how you see it. And one of the things that we focus on is how do you see challenges? Remy and I, what we do, I get excited.
in our organization, I get excited about challenges. I used to get upset about challenges. And I had a light bulb moment when I realized that challenges are consistent. They pop up and challenges have a tendency to pop up at random. And the randomness of challenges, guess what? They're consistent. So if the randomness is consistent,
there's always gonna be a time where something pops up. What's the point of getting upset if randomness is consistent? There's no point. And so what I found is when you can get excited about challenges and recognize that a challenge that you're facing, ultimately the process of moving through that challenge, being curious about that challenge, getting excited about solving that challenge,
Jiani (19:29)
Hmph.
Julian Lewis | Zella Life| COO & CoFounder (19:42)
that challenge will ultimately become a tool on your belt that you use in the future once you've processed and got through it. So when you can see it that way as these upcoming random challenges are areas that I need to level up and they give me an opportunity to do so, it changes your outlook on whatever the...
the situation is that you need to solve within your organization. So you start from a different reference, a different type or different way to frame it. And the other aspect of it is being able to go across different organizations within your company saying, hey, whenever you have a new project, you have...
complete autonomy to reach out to whatever organization you need to. And if they have the bandwidth, they have their, their leaders give them the opportunity to work with you. And one of the, one of the ways I like to see it is when my daughter was very young, she loved a movie called Ratatouille and Ratatouille was about this rat who could cook. Okay. It was, um, and it was
Jiani (20:44)
Oh, wait, I watched this movie too. He was like learning and cooking and he become like very popular and yeah, yeah. I watched the movie too. One of my favorite too. Ha ha ha.
Julian Lewis | Zella Life| COO & CoFounder (20:47)
Okay.
Now, if you remember in the movie (Ratatouille) the reason he loved food is because he could take food that most people wouldn't expect would go together, and he could take those tastes and create a completely different experience. And that's what co-collaboration provides organizations. So instead of feeling that they need to go out and recruit a special person that has all of these different ideas,
All they have to do is get great at allowing people to have the company, like you said, of each other within the company and collab in different projects that are across the across different organizations. And when you're open to doing both of those things and facing challenges, almost like a video game, each, each time you level up, you have an environment that gets excited about it.
and is curious at the foundation of it as well.
Jiani (21:47)
beautiful. That's beautiful.
And how do you envision, you know, the future of coaching, the future of personal development with all this technologies that's coming at us, like artificial intelligence, virtual reality, neural links, like, you know, brand machine interaction and how, where are we, you know, biometrics, where are we heading?
Julian Lewis | Zella Life| COO & CoFounder (21:52)
Thank you.
Jiani (22:11)
What could be the best version of future that you hope to see or step into?
Remy Meraz (22:15)
I mean, there's so much here, right? But I think that ultimately all of this technology that's coming out and is available to us, it really creates opportunity. And if you look at history and all the big beats that have shown up in history, right? I remember when the computer first came out, right? When the internet came out. But it's opportunity for us to do good with it. And that's what I feel like we're doing at Sella Life, right?
We're using AI to help serve our clients better and that they in turn can serve their employees better and they can find operational blind spots or get a look into operational blind spots they didn't even realize they had. And ultimately it's helping the organization. But there's so much fear when it comes to new technologies coming out.
but it gives people an opportunity to learn and to grow and to create efficiencies, which when you can create more efficiencies, it gives you more time to be creative, right, and play. But it's just an opportunity for folks to grow and to use the tools to better serve them in what they're up to. And I think with biometrics, it's so amazing because now we have the ability
you know, to get a better glimpse into our health and how we operate. But now, you know, where things are going with mindset as well. And when we can take a holistic approach to our whole self. To better ourselves and, you know, to have healthy minds and healthy bodies. And and again, to show up as our best versions of self, whether that's in your personal life or in the in the workplace.
Jiani (23:48)
That's beautiful. I actually wanted to ask a follow up question about the AI specific applications. So how is AI currently being integrated or used within Zella life platform.
Julian Lewis | Zella Life| COO & CoFounder (24:00)
Well, in a few ways, what it allows us to do, if you take a look at coaching traditionally, being a coach for almost 20 years now, coaching meant that you would ask questions and basically hold up a mirror.
Jiani (24:06)
Mm.
Julian Lewis | Zella Life| COO & CoFounder (24:14)
so that a coachee could see themselves clearly and see a path for them and see blind spots that they may not have been aware of. So it allows them to increase their self-awareness. But in the actual process of coaching, you usually would have a coach that once a client said something important, had to then stop and write that down.
And as they were writing down, it interrupted the flow of the conversation and it interrupted the coach being present. And so in a regular conversation, you and I can be present and engaged because I'm not taking notes on what you're saying and writing it down. And so that part of coaching wasn't really explored because there was no way to do that. And
Jiani (24:53)
Mm-hmm.
Julian Lewis | Zella Life| COO & CoFounder (25:00)
And what AI allows our coaches to do is it allows them to show up 100% present, where AI is running in the background, making sure to identify those notes specifically. And it also allows us to utilize our proprietary, our AI to mind for data, to see overarching themes that are taking place within coaching sessions.
so that we have a cohort of people, we can see themes that go across the entire cohort. And then with those identified themes, like we mentioned having psychological safety, it allows us to get the real data set that helps us to identify or create a root cause analysis to share with the organization.
Jiani (25:44)
Mm.
Julian Lewis | Zella Life| COO & CoFounder (25:46)
Here's what's really happening in your organization. And then we can train against that or use that to make informed decisions in the right direction. So AI has supported us in the data, being able to quantify and show the realness, if you will, of coaching, because you can see the metrics in the areas of growth, as far as data, but it also allows our coaches
to focus on just being coaches and show up in the present. And that's what I see for the future. I see the ability for AI and extended reality to allow us to focus more on being in the present instead of the technologies that we had in the late 90s and early 2000s becoming more of a distraction. I see
Remy Meraz (26:14)
Thank you.
Jiani (26:18)
Mm.
Remy Meraz (26:32)
Right.
Jiani (26:32)
Mm.
Julian Lewis | Zella Life| COO & CoFounder (26:32)
AI and extended reality kind of moving to the background, running in the background, allowing us to be more fully present and then to utilize the analytics to make better informed decisions for our next engagements with each other. It also allows us to have a think partner. So for someone that wants to do a startup and can't bounce ideas off of a founder like myself and Remy,
Jiani (26:39)
Hmm.
you
Julian Lewis | Zella Life| COO & CoFounder (26:57)
they can bounce those ideas off of AI and brainstorm a lot faster, collapsing the time it takes to come to, um, a decision or, or whatever it is that they're trying to create. So I'm very excited about the future, where we're going to be able to take this and where we can, where we can go as a, um, as a people.
Jiani (27:15)
Hmm. That's beautiful. And as we're tapping into the power of AI, extended reality, are there any potential challenges or risks that we need to be aware of? One thing that I can certainly think about is the database, like when we use AI to tap into the open
Remy Meraz (27:15)
Yeah.
Jiani (27:33)
large language model and the quality of data, especially the diversity of the data, is usually very challenging. That's one thing I can think of. I'll be curious to hear from you about the other major challenges that people need to pay attention to.
Remy Meraz (27:38)
Yeah.
Julian Lewis | Zella Life| COO & CoFounder (27:46)
I agree.
Remy Meraz (27:46)
Yeah, yeah, the one that comes up quite a bit that, you know, I've been asked this question is about the bias piece. And, you know, we have to remember that for the people who are programming these, you know, AI tools, that it's really important that we have diverse voices and people behind the scenes and if they're not programming, they're tapping in and making sure that they're getting
Jiani (27:53)
Hmm.
Remy Meraz (28:09)
a clear representation or a full representation of all voices that are out there as they're programming these tools. You know, another piece of it is loss of skills I get concerned about, right? Especially when I think about kids having to write papers and those critical thinking skills and there's something to the piece of doing the research aspect and learning and making sure that isn't lost or the instant.
gratification of knowledge at your fingertips. And what happens if you don't have access to it? You know, can you critically think on your own? Can you solve a problem on your own? One of the things I know like happening on some college campuses where there's lack of resilience being a common thread now amongst college students, you know, in younger generations, and they're having to do outreach.
programs to teach resilience because that is missing. And so what happens now when you have technology in place and with critical thinking and problem solving on your own.
Jiani (29:04)
Yeah, these are two challenges. I think also in the workspace, if we, I think like Julian said, it's more about leverage them to work in the background, so we can be more engaged. So it's like, the question would be like, how, how can we best put them in the background and put humans at the forefront and interactions at the forefront?
Remy Meraz (29:15)
Uh huh.
Jiani (29:27)
beautiful.
Julian Lewis | Zella Life| COO & CoFounder (29:28)
And that's the question, right? And see, so the beauty behind these technologies, going back in history, every new technology that has come up have had a double-edged sword. Great things, terrible things. When we start to learn about physics and science, incredible things came from it, dangerous things came from it.
Jiani (29:30)
Yes, that's the question.
Julian Lewis | Zella Life| COO & CoFounder (29:50)
And what I can say, it's always gonna be based upon the person and how they decide to use it. And there's gonna be a responsibility to each of us and as a society. But at the same time, that's the curiosity, the nature. We go back to children that childlike curiosity. None of these technologies would exist without it. And so it's necessary to realize that yes, we found out a really amazing
way to do something, but we have to account for all of these things here. And it's going to be interesting how people solve the question, how should it run in the background or the question, what best way to keep humanity forward while we have AI support it.
Those are going to be great questions that are going to need to be answered, and there are going to be opportunities for children that aren't even born yet to help to solve those problems.
Jiani (30:40)
Hmm.
That's beautiful. That's so beautiful. Such a great conversation that we're having. And I think let's give our audience a brief recap of how, you know, what topic we've talked about. So we talked about the story of Zela Life, its mission and how it's leveraging key components to create scalable, sustainable culture shift within all the nations and make executive coaching more accessible to basically everybody within the organization.
We talked about the bigger concept of diversity and inclusion. We talked about how culture can be fostered to curate and activate more childlike wonder, grow curiosity, and help organizations to become more healthy, more playful, and more joyful for a company or a group of people who are wanting or who are committed to serve a group of people.
target audiences or group of people that they serve for a better world. And we also talked about what could technology such as artificial intelligence, extended realities, and other fancy biometric technologies can empower human connections and human collaborations and what are some potential risks and challenges that we need to be aware of. And we proposed a very key research question.
for future generations or for current generations to look up and devote their curiosity toward. So as we conclude this first part of the conversation, let's move to the magic part of this conversation. So I'll be very curious, and our audience are probably very curious. So what did you enjoy doing when you were around 11 and 14 years old?
that time just becomes irrelevant.
Remy Meraz (32:22)
Great question. For me, it was playing outside. For me, my goal every day was play outside and until the street lights came on. That was when you knew you had to go home. But I was also very much into behavior, human behavior.
And I got some really big lessons on human behavior as a kid. And I tell people I've been a human behavior scientist since I was seven years old because I had to deal with challenges as a kid. And my parents, my mom married my stepfather. And
it was an interracial marriage and nobody talked to us about race, right? But I could feel the energy of like hatred towards my parents. I could see how people behaved around them. Right. And, and then even with myself personally, I had, you know, some challenges where with identity and race and how people treated me differently.
um, because of the way I looked or put me into a category because I didn't speak Spanish, but I looked like I should. And so I was, you know, and I, and I'm biracial myself. And so it was for me, the curiosity was always running, right. And like why people act the way they act, why they treat people the way they treat people. And so I got really, um, incredible lessons, which obviously
Jiani (33:30)
Mm-hmm. Why?
Remy Meraz (33:38)
I think contributed to the building of Zella Life, right? And to helping people and exploring that.
Jiani (33:45)
Beautiful. It's a lifelong quest feels like.
Julian Lewis | Zella Life| COO & CoFounder (33:47)
Ahem.
Remy Meraz (33:47)
Oh, for sure. I'm 100% living a purpose-driven life. I'm very clear on that.
Jiani (33:48)
Yeah, it is.
beautiful. So Julian.
Julian Lewis | Zella Life| COO & CoFounder (33:53)
Yeah, at 11 and 12, that's like, for me, I remember middle school. I love to draw. I love to write or write music. I did, I did a lot in that area. I also love to, to hang out with my friends, but I do remember something that stood out to me that was important throughout childhood. Cause I asked a lot of questions.
Because I observed a lot. I remember my parents getting into somewhat of an argument when I was like five years old, and me sitting there playing with something and listening to them both. And then I told my dad, I said, mommy said this, you didn't hear her. And then I told my mom, daddy said this, you didn't hear him. And they both looked at me like, who is this kid? But I recognized
through childhood that although people talk to each other often, most times they weren't hearing each other. And I wondered why that was. I had a huge, I was curious about why, how, why was it that people could speak to each other?
and not hear one another. And so that led me down a path to really being excited about understanding human beings and how they interact. And then the more I learned, the more I got excited about it. I found out that oftentimes people were speaking to projections.
from the past. And so they weren't even speaking to the person in front of them. They were speaking to a narrative that they've created that they replay every day that they wake up almost like their own personalized Groundhog Day. And so that when you have people showing up that way every single day, it's very difficult. Combine that with the fact that there's no systematic approach to learning soft skills.
Jiani (35:18)
Hmm.
Julian Lewis | Zella Life| COO & CoFounder (35:29)
and we load up all these great approaches to hard skills, you have adults that are extremely skilled, subject matter experts, PhD, doctorates in areas of expertise that neglected learning how to interact or process their own issues, showing up to interact with humanity. And that usually winds up
becoming a disaster or a crash. And we're just expected to know as adults how to do it. And so all of that became very, very exciting and very curious to me. And that's similar to Remy, what led me to wanting to create something that ultimately looked like Zella Life.
Remy Meraz (36:09)
I think the real magic here. Yeah. Wait a minute, I was just going to say, that's the magic between us, right? That we both had these similar life experiences in how the universe brings us together, right, to solve a bigger, greater problem. And that's the real magic there in that.
Jiani (36:11)
I think you both met for a reason.
is to people who meet the other person and that's where the magic happens. The magic happens before they meet each other. It's the seed. It's beautiful.
Remy Meraz (36:32)
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Absolutely. There's no accidents in life.
Julian Lewis | Zella Life| COO & CoFounder (36:36)
Mm-hmm.
Jiani (36:40)
There's no accident in life, I truly believe that. So every moment counts.
Remy Meraz (36:44)
every person counts every voice counts yeah
Jiani (36:45)
every moment.
beautiful. And I hope as our audience are tuning into this episode, they will have the opportunity or space to reflect their Groundhog Day and see what reality they are being trapped as of now and bringing in or opening up that poke a hole in their personal realities and
Remy Meraz (37:07)
Yeah.
Jiani (37:07)
the question why? Is there any information that I'm not hearing? Beautiful. So as we conclude this episode, what do you think is your magic then? And magic evolves, so for now, at this moment.
Remy Meraz (37:11)
Right.
Yeah, I touched on a little bit for me personally, I believe that my magic is, is that I'm clear on my mission. And that my personal mission is to empower people to take accountability for their emotional healing and to take massive action in their healing and their growth and
by me living in my purpose, that I'm so clear on it and that I'm here to serve and create massive impact on a large scale. And every day that's my why, that's what wakes me up, that's what gets me excited every single day. And it feels magical being in this space, being me, being in my body now feels magical because I'm living that every day.
Jiani (37:57)
That's beautiful. I like how you speak this in such like. Susie and confidence and just casual, but in powers way. I like that. That's beautiful. Remy clarity is power. That's true.
Julian Lewis | Zella Life| COO & CoFounder (38:02)
Thank you.
Remy Meraz (38:07)
Yeah, it's clarity now. I feel, yeah, I'm 100% clear. And when you're, when you're moving in that, right, with that kind of clarity, it is peaceful. It does feel powerful, but it's just a knowing. And we've had as a team, we've had some spiritual breakthroughs as a team, where we're all operating from that space. Every single one of us.
And from the founders to the coaches and that like is another layer of foundational confidence and knowing because we're all moving collectively together. It's not just me by myself. It's us as a team and it does feel magical and that's why I love your podcast name. I was like this is so appropriate.
Jiani (38:49)
I'm trying to live in my zone of magic and getting clarity every day by talking with people like you and Julian.
Remy Meraz (38:57)
You're doing it. You started this podcast and you're doing it and you're sharing, you're sharing, right? Sharing it out or talking to folks and then sharing it outward. You are creating magic right there in that.
Jiani (39:02)
Yes.
Beautiful. It's a long way to go and I hope I take care of myself and I can keep this going as long as I am able to It's beautiful. So Julian, what is your magic?
Julian Lewis | Zella Life| COO & CoFounder (39:20)
Mine is, somehow, I was able to keep my childhood curiosity through adulthood. And the reason I say that is because, I mean, even when I look at how close my daughter and I are and how close we've been ever since she was born, it was because I could relate. I could relate to her. The things that she would ask me as a child,
Jiani (39:27)
Mm.
Julian Lewis | Zella Life| COO & CoFounder (39:40)
I'd say, I get it. I can relate. That makes so much sense, baby. I would have all these great conversations with her, but I could also relate to adults. And the truth is it's because I never lost curiosity. People would ask me, I had a men's mental health.
talk that I did once a week for almost two years, starting into the pandemic to help support people. And some people during these conversations, these group conversations, would get extremely angry. A lot of times it was they were projecting or something was happening. And some of my counterparts would say, how are you able to keep calm and not be upset? And I would say, because I would be so curious as to why they were upset.
Jiani (40:20)
Hahaha
Julian Lewis | Zella Life| COO & CoFounder (40:20)
And it intrigued me where it had nothing to do with and a personal affront or attack on me. My ego didn't become a part of the conversation because I was so curious as to why they were coming from, where they were coming from and what that possibly could mean for them. And so that really is mine. I'll get excited about certain new ideas and I'll share them with Remy and I'll be really curious
see how far down the rabbit hole I can go to identify whatever it, the it in the conversation is. And I haven't exhausted that. That's always excited me as a child and it still excites me today as an adult.
Jiani (40:57)
That's, that's beautiful. I just hope all, all of the adults out there can hear what Julian is saying and. Take the self judgment out, embrace the childlike wonder and curiosity. And that will take you to places. And whether it's funding a company, joining a new team, doing something new, taking challenge as they go and just.
live in your zone of magic. This is amazing. I'm just so happy like how this is all in alignment. And we're recording this special episode on the day of Eclipse 2024. I think the energy is aligned and we're surrounding ourselves with like-minded people who are devoting their passion into something meaningful to help the bigger humanities that's
Remy Meraz (41:22)
Yes.
Yeah.
Jiani (41:40)
This is very, that's just a magical conversation that we had. So.
Remy Meraz (41:46)
Yes, it is a special day and I'm glad it took place on this day. Thank you for having us. Yeah.
Jiani (41:49)
wonderful day. Thank you so much for coming and share your vision, your story, and being vulnerable with us and showcasing and show us what is possible being an adult in a crazy time like this. It can be fun. Yes.
Julian Lewis | Zella Life| COO & CoFounder (41:52)
Pleasure.
Remy Meraz (42:05)
Yes. We can be fun and rewarding. Fulfilling.
Jiani (42:08)
Wouldn't that be great for everybody who is able to find their calling, live in their zone and play with their company folks? Wouldn't that be a beautiful planet that...
Remy Meraz (42:18)
It would be a beautiful place. Even at a minimum, here's the minimum that I would love to see. If we take the piece about curiosity and take Julian's approach where he was curious as why people are upset, right? But think about what causes people stress and anxiety is conflict. And if they could just take curiosity into conflict, what would that do for the world? What would that do for organizations? What would that do for people's health?
and anxiety and stress. Like if we could just do that at a minimum, how much that would shift culture, humanity. And then with all of that extra energy that you have and less stress, how you can then approach ideas and creativity and curiosity and playing, more play, more creativity.
for people.
Jiani (43:02)
That gives, that provides psychological safety as we can handle conflict with grace, with curiosity, and then we have more space to play.
Remy Meraz (43:10)
curiosity, compassion, and grace. There it is.
Jiani (43:12)
Beautiful. It's a perfect, it's a perfect recording today. Thank you so much for coming to the podcast. Such a great learning from you.
Remy Meraz (43:16)
Yeah.
Thanks for you. Appreciate you. Yeah.
Julian Lewis | Zella Life| COO & CoFounder (43:21)
Yes, we appreciate you having us.
Jiani (43:23)
Good to have you.
