Play Therapy For Leadership Development | Strother Gaines
Immersive play therapy invites adults to step into different roles through theatrical elements and embodied experience—offering a powerful alternative to traditional talk therapy for exploring shame, expanding capacity, and discovering permission to be more fully ourselves.
Beyond the Couch
Picture this: You're wearing a wig you've never worn before. You catch your reflection in the mirror, and something shifts. The person looking back isn't quite you—but isn't quite not-you either. In that moment, you feel permission to move differently, speak differently, be differently.
This isn't escapism. It's not pretending your problems don't exist. This is immersive play therapy for adults—a growing approach that uses theatrical elements, role-play, and embodied experience to help people "untangle the knots" in their behaviors, beliefs, and emotional patterns, as one practitioner beautifully describes it.
While traditional talk therapy asks us to examine our lives from the safety of a couch, immersive play therapy invites us to step inside a different experience entirely. And in doing so, we often discover truths about ourselves that words alone couldn't reach.
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MAGICademy Podcast (00:00)
Adults can wonder. We're always kind of writing this line of like, can't be too much, can't be too little. Give us permissions to wonder. It's just as powerful and just as unique. Self-distancing, this ability to step away from our egocentricism. You're gonna lose sometimes, die sometimes. You mess up and fail. It's really hard to judge yourself or to fear judgment when you're engaged in play. Opportunity to envision themselves as something that they're not and something that maybe they wish they were more of.
Jiani (00:32)
Welcome to MAGICademy podcast.
Strother, is an international leader, coach and therapist
his specialty is in the immersive play. In his words, it's a play therapy for adults. And in his ways of healing, he integrates the element of immersive storytelling, narratives, performance arts.
Strother (00:46)
Yeah.
Jiani (00:57)
integrate them together into an immersive experience, discover the potential knot that we have in our behaviors or our cognitive frameworks, in our leadership challenges.
core topic for this conversation is to explore What is play therapy for adults? What is that? And then how do we leverage or harnessing the power of immersive play to help us
find deeper alignment within ourselves in a more unpredictable, challenging, disoriented world.
So let's get started. Perfect.
Strother (01:34)
Let's do it, yeah.
Jiani (01:38)
BBB in front of you lands a spaceship and out walks a friendly alien. If you were to use one word, one sound, or one movement to invite the alien to play.
What would that be?
Strother (01:51)
Let's see, I think it's gotta be an offer of some sort. I'd probably go sound, because who knows if they speak my language. It'd something like, mm. I think that an outreach, think, in immersive theater, we talk about doing that with audience members. Like, it's always an offer, not a
when you think of play therapy, you think of sand tray where you're building worlds in the sand. You think of doll work where you're playing with dolls and sort of imbuing them with characteristics. And in looking at what had happened with my audience members,
and the intended outcomes that you would have in play therapy with children. It's the same sort of pathway where it was like, well, they start, they come in and they're really tight. And when they leave, they've opened up in some interesting way. And so looking at child-based play therapy and not really seeing a lot of work that ties it to adults, I started thinking, well, there's gotta be some type of therapeutic intervention or some type of therapeutic work that's designed for adults that also activates.
this part of our brain that activates this part of our emotional core. And some people do, there's some interesting therapeutic interventions that have theatrical elements, but they don't, one of the things I'm really interested in as an artist who became a therapist is do things like production value and costume and the talent of the performer and the talent of the collaborator elevate the impact of the intervention? Or is it really just, it's just the act of?
creating with somebody across the way from you. So immersive gives people an opportunity to envision themselves as something that they're not and something that maybe they wish they were more of.
it was really fascinating to kind of watch the journey of audience members from the beginning of the show to the end of the show. a lot of times it's how can I get people to let go of some of the rigidity? How can I let people help people
get out of their own way, which is a bit of a trite coachy thing, but is very real. And I was seeing these people do it through this character work, through play.
whether that be through prop or costume or mask or just sort of the journal work that we do that allows you to inhabit something that doesn't feel quite like you. When I think of the larger pieces that I've been working on, I've been working on an escape room designed to help people manage their anxiety by solving puzzles in the room that helps them know how to do things in the real world too. In those situations, it's something that surrounds you on all sides, something that you are an
participant in something that you're not just reading about or talking about but something that you're engaged in doing.
Jiani (04:34)
So it's, it's a visceral embodied experience in a safely curated and designed interactive space.
Strother (04:46)
Yeah, it's so fascinating because
the artist side of me, and I think most artists think this, it's not a big leap for us to say that art is therapeutic. And so for me, anytime I go and experience art, whether it be music or theater or visual art, I could get some type of therapeutic benefit from that. But I'm curious now as a therapist, can I create work that is designed to do that as opposed to doing it as a byproduct?
I don't think many artists are necessarily thinking about the therapeutic impact their work will have on the audience. Some do, but not all. And is it something that we can play with when we say, based on the research in what helps people in therapeutic instances, can I build something that does that, but is maybe a bit more of a Trojan horse of mental health as opposed to something that feels like an intense intervention where you lay on the couch and we talk about your issues.
Jiani (05:49)
Can you give us a tangible, vivid visualization of what a immersive, therapeutical play for adults look like, feel like, yeah, feel like, look like? I'm going to close my eyes and try to visualize.
Strother (06:03)
Sure, ⁓ I can imagine
that. Okay, I'll start with one big visual that some people might be like, no, I don't wanna do that, but then I'll walk it back. I think that when we embody a new character as an actor, one of the moments that it really comes together is when the costume comes out. You might be playing this character for a long time before you get
the headpiece or the wig or the shirt or the shoes. Oftentimes the shoes is a big element. So is there a type of character that you want to be more like? Can we integrate a costume piece that feels like that character that you can wear and feel what that feels like? The easiest one to work on is a wig. I am bald.
And it is completely different when you put on a wig. The second that a wig goes on and you look at yourself in the mirror, you feel like a different character. And what is it about that character that you would like to embody? What is it about that character that maybe you don't want to embody? What is it about that character that you can take with you once the wig comes off or the sunglasses or the costume piece or the brooch or the necklace?
There are elements that we can put into our own costuming that gives us access to a character that may be like us, plus some extra good bits. And then we can just wear it out as ourselves and we have access to something we might not have had otherwise. The other one that might be a little less like, you don't have to go out in a wig. You don't have to do drag. I would love to do drag with you, but we don't have to do drag as a therapy exercise.
Jiani (07:48)
What is
a drag? Sorry.
Strother (07:50)
Drag, so dressing as another gender expression. So when I do drag, my name is Joanne Fabrics and I keep the beard and I have a red wig and beautiful dress. And I look fairly masculine presenting now, but we can doll it up on the other side too. So, yeah.
Jiani (07:57)
Whoooo
that's beautiful.
in my case, I can dress up with like a guy
experience what it feels like in a different gender. ⁓
Strother (08:16)
Yeah, let's give you
a suit and maybe like a sort of stereotypical hat and see, does that feel different the way that you navigate the world? Exactly, like what you're doing right now, even with your eyes closed is something that play gives us access to. And I think of it from my theater training, this idea of like our energy centers. I, in my normal life, usually lead with kind of like my chest or my shoulders, but if I'm in drag, I'm leading more from my hips. And how does that feel different?
from like you did when you sort of puffed up and got taller. So how does that feel different? And do I like it? Do I not? Can I incorporate that? If you're about to give a presentation, is it helpful for you to kind of like do that? Or is it restrictive? It's just, it's all data for us to learn about who we are and how we show up and how this character may or may not be different from us.
Jiani (09:05)
I, it's very interesting because sometimes, I mean, the gender is given and we kind of get shuffled into those different genders and the society has a particular expectation of what a gender should behave and what is good, what is bad for a particular gender to carry.
Strother (09:25)
⁓ yeah.
Jiani (09:27)
And however, I think deep down we are all very multi-dimensional. have this divine, feminine, divine masculine energies that's all in play, like, just it's in harmony. And sometimes if we are locked in a particular gender and the, all the accompanied expectations coming from the world, sometimes if it's aligned, then that's great. Like if it's not aligned, it can get very,
Strother (09:39)
Thank
Jiani (09:53)
one-dimensional and it feels like it's not we're not authentic we're not we're being too fragmented and it's very interesting to explore all the different possibilities of us as the being so i do i do see that like the role play the immersive theater provides us with an safe invitation to be a different person or to play out
Strother (09:59)
Mm-hmm.
in New
Jiani (10:20)
another side of a holistic being. That's great.
Strother (10:24)
The example that I love that you're talking about this in that way, because my personal example is that I grew up in rural Kentucky, where femininity, kind of in anyone, both in cisgendered women and also
men, is looked down upon. The masculinity is much more preferred. And so as a queer person growing up in that space, there were lots of times when anything that I would do that felt effeminate, I would either butch it up or try to lock that down or speak in a lower voice or not move my hips in that way.
And so it is restrictive to fit into a specific box, but that's what I had to do to survive. And so it's what you do. And the first time that I actually did full drag, you swing the pendulum so far to the other side, but it doesn't feel like me. It feels like the character, but it's of course me doing the play acting. And so after that gig, and I came out of drag and you wipe off all the makeup, you take off all of the fancy clothes.
and I'm back to kind of me as my default self, I now expanded my capacity with what I had done in my body. And I could say like, that feels really good over there. actually sort of interestingly enough, coming back into like my masculine side as well, I felt more comfortable on that side too, because I'd spread into the feminine side. And so this ability to explore
all of the sort of nooks and crannies of yourself in role playing and what I would always usually call self-distancing, this ability to step away from our egocentricism and that I'm so worried people are gonna judge me that I come across as a feminine, as Strother, but I'm not worried about anybody judging Joanne as feminine because that's who she is. But the turn of it all is it's still me in that body. I'm still making that choice. I'm the one learning and experiencing.
It's just my perception of how people are looking at me that changes.
Jiani (12:30)
That's beautiful. think most importantly is how you view yourself changes. I think sometimes we're our biggest critic and As I'm listening to your stories, I think it's it's the same for women too like if a woman I think in general the world is up playing the masculinity and hustle and just like just like if you don't have something like you're not worthy like what things won't happen and and
for women who really wanted to fit in this kind of success profile of the current society or the current spectrum is to
have that masculine side out. And sometimes if a woman demonstrate a lot of masculinity, then that attracts a lot of judgment from the outside and people will see same masculinity differently across a woman versus a man. So there's, I think it's a very judgy.
Strother (13:16)
Mm-hmm.
for sure.
Jiani (13:30)
world
where you know you just it feels like you can't you can't be perfect like anything that you're trying to step out of your default mode or comfort zone is viewed as something not welcomed as if you you being your default is the way the world wants you to be but which is I mean that's gonna be a life too small
Strother (13:55)
Well,
you're right. trapped in, I love that you say too small because it feels like we're always kind of riding this line of like, you can't be too much, but you also can't be too little. So you kind of have to always be really aware of where you're fitting and what we think of you or even like you said, what I think of myself. You know, for the longest time, I never wore any type of jewelry because I thought, well, I'm not a ring person. Like I can't pull that off. And it was just, that's what my brain had told me was my.
Normal and by going above it. It's like actually I could I don't have to but I can and so you feel less restricted you feel you have more access to things and I think you know to tie it all the way back when you said why why play You talked about the shame of living in the world and people sort of judging you and looking at you and our own self-judgment It's really hard to judge yourself or to fear judgment when you're engaged in
play
Because play, we know we're gonna mess up. Like if you're playing Mario Kart, you know you're gonna lose sometimes. If you are playing a fighting game, you're going to die sometimes. That's part of the thing is that you mess up and you fail. But in the real world, we go, we could never. If I fail, everyone's gonna judge me or I'm gonna judge myself. So when we engage in that playful side and we're able to integrate play more into our professional world, that shame...
dissipates, which allows access. That idea that it's okay for us to fail sometimes because we'll learn and get better starts to get easier to tolerate as opposed to in a space where we're like, if I fail at all, I'm going to get fired. If I fail at all, I'm going to be destitute on the street. The leaps our brains make in failure and shame are so much bigger than they oftentimes really are. And play allows us that extra space.
Jiani (15:49)
That's beautiful. So it's like a very safe experimental space.
Strother (15:54)
Yeah, I love a good experiment. Yeah, I think plays a perfect
experimental place, a place to try something new.
I feel people do it way easier than I think they would most of the time. I try and give them something that... I think about tabletop role-playing games like Dungeons and Dragons or Vampire the Masquerade or things that people get around a table and tell a story collectively. People really quickly fall into, we all see the same thing. We're using little miniatures and that's enough for us to get there. I think that...
Suspension of disbelief is something that I feel like humans crave this. They crave that fantasy. They want to be able to say, let me teleport away from this world for a second and just play around in another one that doesn't feel quite as heavy right now. And I think when you give people the opportunity, when you, we call it sometimes in immersive theater, the magic circle, which is when you step into the magic circle, you're leaving the world of before.
and you're now coming into this world and these are the rules of this world and this is how it's different from that one over there. And so when you, that can be as simple as walking through a doorway and on the other side of the doorway, we're now in the world, but it can also be like the onboarding process that you give with them at the beginning of the show. And as we, like you did at the beginning, no one can see this, but before we recorded this, you do a ritual and we do that. And that is now we're stepping into.
the special place and then we'll step out of the special place. And so if we can give people a good step into the magic circle, whatever that looks like, they're ready to, they'll suspend their disbelief. No problem. They're like, let's all go. Like we're all in wigs, but that means this and like people will do it. Yeah.
Jiani (17:41)
Yeah, and I have some questions on the theories and the science behind the play therapy. Are there any big thought leaders, researchers, authors who lay the foundation of play therapy, immersive storytelling that contributes to therapeutical outcome?
Strother (17:47)
Go ahead.
Jiani (18:05)
such as deeper self acceptance, eradication of shame.
Strother (18:09)
or
there's not sort of like an agreed upon this is it. I think what I've found in my research so far, and I totally could be missing someone. my hope is that there's some, I know there are other people out there doing work in the play space, but the way that I've cobbled it together has been taking things from all sorts of different people. So I've been working with this wonderful immersive performance lead named Jeff Wirth
And I'm looking at his book over here on interactive performance right now. And he and I do a lot of work sort of talking back and forth on, from the actor perspective, like how can they help in this space? And his work in immersive performance, which is around sort of, he does a lot of work in interactive performance, immersive theater, theme parks, places where there's that connection with the audience. And so he does a lot of really interesting stuff. Punch Drunk is a well-known.
creative team that ran Sleep No More for many, years in New York, which is a lot of people's first immersive theater entryway. They're opening another one soon called Viola's Room,
and then sort of, you know, more traditional, you know, Jungian psychology and Brene Brown and vulnerability. And it's, it's a hodgepodge for me of creators and people in that space. Like drag queens, I think are really inspiring to me. People are doing any type of role playing games like LARPing.
is inspiring to me. There's a lot of people that are kind of hovering around this idea and I think everyone is taking a specific tact on it, but I don't know of someone who's like the guru that we go to for all things play therapy yet.
Jiani (19:59)
I think that's the beauty of it. It's very cross-disciplinary, vibrant, because diversity feels gross and feels like it's very growing space.
Strother (20:06)
Right.
Yeah, my background,
I was an opera singer for a while in undergrad and I don't really do it much anymore. Like I don't do it at all. Like what am I saying? I haven't done it in forever. But music therapy is a huge, huge thing that I have nothing to do with right now. But I know there are lots of musical therapists out there who are integrating it into their work. So I think it is potentially it's the creative process integrates into therapy really well. Role playing integrates into therapy really well.
Experiments and exploration is a huge part of it. So I think you're right. It's a big, big chestnut that we all can kind of get into.
Jiani (20:46)
That's great. That means that growth, there's a lot of growth opportunities and experiences that can come out of it. Beautiful. So I'm curious, like,
Moving into the future, as we have more enhancement possibilities from technology, do you see this immersive play can take place in virtual spaces like as simple as Zoom or as sophisticated as virtual reality or augmented reality? What is your take on the future?
Strother (21:05)
Mm-hmm.
Well, you mentioned sort of the business perspective on this and like when I think about mental health in the US right now, I forget the exact statistic and it will have changed by the time people are listening to this, but it's something to the effect of if every mental health provider in the country was seeing.
every person that needed to be seen, our caseload would be like 375 people a week. It's just, completely unsustainable. Like right now we're at a place where one-on-one mental health, there's not enough providers for the people that request the service. And so, you know, the business case of the thing that people are starting to try and figure out is how do we scale something that is intrinsically
really bespoke, you you and I, it would be hard for me to work on your mental health or your personal development in a really general way, because all of your life has been so important to getting you to where you are now. So as we unpack trauma, as we unpack your coping mechanisms, as we unpack all of these different things, it's hard for me to just say, well, if you just do this one thing, like, it'll be great for everybody. And so with virtual reality,
Jiani (22:25)
Personalized too. ⁓
Strother (22:30)
or augmented reality, and people really get fussy around the concept of AI in this space too, which I share some ethical hesitations around. But what, when it comes to scalability, does technology usage look like? And I would love, I have no technical background, other than I like playing video games, but I do not know how to do this at all. But I would love to build some type of virtual reality experience that...
allows people the opportunity to play a role in a space. And I know that a lot of their theater companies that have experimented with, we have live actors who are playing the virtual avatars in the world and interacting with people live at specific times. So stuff is happening in that space. I think it's really early days in that. think that's something that's really interesting is watching artists and tech folks
come together because they just speak such different languages in many ways and their intention can be very different. So I'm watching some places where they're starting to have those conversations and they're really exciting. A friend of mine, Josh Rubin, spoke at South by Southwest on this and his talk just came out today. And how do we integrate these predictive AI and virtual reality into interactive and immersive storytelling? And I think that he's got
a good sort of first draft of how can we do that? What's the idea? How do we put ethical guidelines on it? Because particularly with growth or mental health, it's leaving that to a bot feels really oookie to me. You know, like I don't want to do that. But I also recognize that they've seen that AI bots can effectively deliver sort of CBT therapy for the first like 10 percent.
So if I was in crisis and I went to chat GPT and said, I'm in crisis, give me a CBT, you know, practice to do right now, it gives a pretty good one. Like, and if that's how I get help in that moment, I want people to have that. how do we, how do we give people the experience of connectivity, which is a huge part of the therapeutic process while also eliminating barriers of it costs $200.
to do this, it costs $500, whatever the money is. We're trying to eliminate stigma for mental health development, we're eliminating barriers in finance, we're eliminating insurance problems. There's so many big knots to untie that tech might be able to untie some of them, but I don't think it can untie all of them. So I'd love to see the intersection of it all.
Jiani (25:06)
Yeah. And from the personal perspective, I think the mental health emergency help from the AI is definitely very helpful. Cause I did actually ask AI about some morning routines or ⁓ grounding techniques and they come up with really good words as guide. it was like, well, I haven't thought about that. That's great. On the other side, I'd also see that sometimes the AI
Strother (25:19)
Mm-hmm.
Jiani (25:32)
AI may not be able to carry all the context throughout time. they sometimes, again, if you talk to AI long enough, at least I tried, last time I tried, they lost context. So all the previous conversation feels like it's not in the database anymore. So I think that's where the human...
Strother (25:43)
Yeah.
Jiani (25:51)
of therapists and experts will come in and bringing in and integrating and compounding those contexts towards solutions as people continue to evolve. Also, I think this immersive space, I feel like we need a lot of real human behind it to, because of improvisation, interactivity, live
Strother (26:13)
And thinking about, you know, as a client in that space, I'm thinking of maybe a client who struggles to connect with people in the real world. If we send them to AI over and over again, what they're learning to connect with is AI and not people. And people are imperfect and people make, and obviously AI makes a lot of mistakes, but like the messiness of humanity, right? Exactly. The messiness of humanity is something that...
Jiani (26:33)
You
Strother (26:40)
when you struggle with connecting can be one of the things that is hard to be with. like, it gets so messy and maybe they won't react that way. Or maybe they'll judge me or maybe I'll feel weird when they're around or maybe I'll judge myself because I think they're too good. And we have to learn how to navigate that in the world. if ⁓ the only solution is, we put people in front of Chat GPT it's going to hit a wall where the effectiveness just goes.
But if it's, how can I make my morning routine better? Sure, I can help with that, but I probably could too. And that means that when you come to me, you've already morning routine set up and we can start working on the other stuff.
Jiani (27:25)
What did you enjoy creating so much that time disappeared for you when you were 11 years old?
Strother (27:34)
When I was 11, or yeah, around there. Let's see. So it's not, I'm going to defend it as creating, though some people might push back on it. I, as a kid, my number one thing was video games, always. It was the place where I would lose myself. It was the place where I would spend a lot of time there. And I know that people have.
Jiani (27:35)
Or eight or 15.
Strother (27:56)
Oftentimes, particularly parents have a really negative response to like, my gosh, my kid is playing all of these video games and there's screen time and why don't they go outside? And for me as a kid, particularly as a queer kid growing up in a rural community where there was no queer representation, where there was no like diversity of really any type, being able to immerse myself in these stories where I was in control, like I am playing and I am the person moving the character around.
I got to learn about the types of ways that I want to show open the world. What does it mean to be a hero? What does it mean to help people? What does it mean? And then obviously there are games that don't follow those at all. But those types of things, that's where I would always lose myself as a kid, is in story, is in narrative, is in game. And so for me, as I age and I get older, I think about where do I lose myself now?
It's in theater, it's in music, it's in board games, it's still in video games. It's a place where I can really plug into a narrative that allows me to experience the world in a different way. And that's what video games were for me as a kid.
Jiani (29:05)
That's when you have your sense of agency and you have the ability to discern which one to immerse yourself in. So I think the self leadership needs to be there so we don't get too lost and we still harness the benefits and rewards from that. I think it is.
Strother (29:21)
I think of this in, ⁓
you please.
Jiani (29:26)
You intuitively
know it feels like, cause some people can really get lost. And I feel like early on you already have this intuition.
Strother (29:31)
Yes.
For me, thing that I, to tie this back to everything we've been talking about, autonomy is so important in a game because you, like you said, it's like you're in control, you're doing the thing. In immersive theater, in role playing, in games, like you are the one making the choice, which is different from passively watching something on TV or a traditional theatrical experience. To me,
the therapeutic benefit often lies in the autonomy piece that says you get to decide. And maybe it's sometimes the illusion of choice, like when a magician says, pick one of these two, and if you pick the right one, they say, great, you took that one. And if you pick the wrong one, they go, great, we'll get rid of that one and we'll use this one. The illusion of choice is still, for us, our experience is still, I got to have a say. That was so important to me. So gaming and play.
gives us an opportunity, particularly if we feel like we don't have a lot of autonomy in other spaces, to feel what it feels like to be the one in charge, to be the one in control, to be the one who says, is how the story should go.
Jiani (30:37)
Yeah.
when we're talking about the shame piece, previously, I feel like a big thing is us
allowing us this agency to give ourselves permission to first to feel the shame, acknowledge there's a shame and then give us the permission to release the shame through our action, through our repairative measures. it does come back to the sense of agency, like we tend to experience in the games, like a video game and all that.
Strother (30:54)
Mm-hmm.
Hmm.
Jiani (31:08)
And I think your immersive theater, therapeutical play is to actually give them different identities and along with it, a sense of agency that they have never experienced before. And through that sense of agency, they get to explore and heal and repair and grow. Hmm. That's beautiful. That's beautiful. That's beautiful. And then I'm wondering, so behind you, are
Strother (31:28)
You nailed it.
Jiani (31:35)
different collections and I think that's level one and we also have level two I bet.
Strother (31:41)
Me too. There's my name's
in here as well. Yeah.
Jiani (31:44)
Yeah, can
you tell us some stories behind it and just anything like why this is the collection and...
Strother (31:54)
Sure. ⁓
Let's see. There's so many. I collect, I'm like a penguin collecting pebbles everywhere I go. So a lot of this is related to trips I've taken or things that I have loved in the past. So like this was tied to a puppet that I used to work with. I love video games. So a lot of these things are video game related. A friend of mine said that I remind her of Steven Universe. So he's up there.
My partner calls me.
a capybara, so these two are here. My friend made me the crochet dumpster fire. This is from Hong Kong. What's up, top? These are gifts from friends. This is from Tokyo Disney. This is art that a friend of mine did. This is my Miss Cleo tarot deck for any millennial that grew up watching Miss Cleo. I got her at a thrift store. ⁓ Obviously get some plants in there.
Jiani (32:29)
Bye.
Don't survive.
Ha ha ha ha.
all of them.
Strother (32:54)
I love
Legos and my company, the coaching company is, I'm a unicorn, damn it. So everyone gives me unicorn stuff all the time. ⁓ This little sassy hippos from Cape Town. So I, it's, they're all just pieces. And if I could spin my, it's a desktop. So if I spin it around, it's going to knock everything over, but kind of all throughout my living space, like I collect all of these pieces that remind me of.
Jiani (33:01)
you
Strother (33:19)
fun things that I've done or places that I've been or experiences that I want to commemorate. And I feel like that's an important part of how I decorate my space is reminding myself of all of the connections that I have and the people that I love and the experiences that have made me who I am. And so they kind of go all over the place.
Jiani (33:37)
That's beautiful. It's always good to have physical representations of things that gives us love and joy. And sometimes for people, do photos, they put photos in the fridge or they collect the fridge. What's that? The fridge magnets as they go around. Yeah.
Strother (33:50)
Mm-hmm.
the magnets that go up there. I have a couple
of those in there. If I could take you in my kitchen, yeah, I'd have a couple there too. I think it goes back to my, one of my favorite games growing up was Zelda, the original Link. And when you walk into the first place, the old man gives you the sword and says, it's dangerous to go alone, take this. And so these are kind of my reminders of all of the things and people that I have. And so you're never, I'm never, I don't feel alone when I've got all that around.
Jiani (34:03)
Yeah.
That's beautiful. What is your magic? Do you think? And our magic evolves all the time. So as of now.
Strother (34:27)
and
I agree.
I used to say catalyst. used to say like, if you put me in with two other people or two different groups that I'm able to help make something happen. And I think now the, think curator is part of my magic, like the ability to find things and bring them and see what's important and pull out the unique bits. And I also think that translator is a big part too, because I spent a lot of my time.
in grad school and outside of communicating between groups that may or may not speak the same language like we talked about a little earlier like tech folks and creatives like I can speak enough of both languages that I can be in between and get both of them on board and business and social like we can do some of that so I feel pretty comfortable in those spaces and I think that that is probably part of my magic spells.
Jiani (35:22)
That's beautiful curating and cross disciplinary communicating. How do you keep your magic alive?
Strother (35:30)
Ooh, I mean, through play, think. I think it's through connections, through play. I just adopted a dog who I'm just in love with. She's upstairs in my room right now to not disrupt the recording. But yeah, her name is Noodles. Thank you, Noodles. I think those connections are important to keeping it alive and, you know, prioritizing. You have to meet your needs and you have to figure out what those are and be intentional about getting them and then.
Jiani (35:41)
Thank you. ⁓
Strother (35:59)
giving yourself time to recover and work and push, but also to breathe. You have to have the exhale after the inhale. And if you're going to do the work, then you have to have time to come out of it too.
Jiani (36:12)
I see. So it's like space, different space, like the magical circle and then the space outside of the magical circle. The transition. What role do you think Childlike Wonder play? First, what do you think is Childlike Wonder in adult context?
Strother (36:20)
Totally, the transition is so important.
I think maybe, maybe I sometimes like take issue with the idea of childlike wonder because I think that we have adult wonder as well. And it's just as, it's just as powerful and just as unique. And it's just because we feel that's not what it means to be an adult that we avoid that. But that wonder in and of itself is still just such a powerful opportunity for us. And so it may be the last time we really allowed ourselves to feel it was as a child, but I think that we still have.
as adults as well.
Jiani (37:00)
give us permissions to feel the same levels of wonder when we were experiencing that as a kid. That's great. Beautiful. I think we've touched, did we touch all the, yeah, okay, great.
Strother (37:02)
Yeah. Yeah.
and
We did it. Yeah, just in time.
Jiani (37:15)
for folks who wanted to get connected with Strother, his information will be in the link below. So please connect and maybe you can collaborate, maybe you can work together. It's a way for us to grow the magical communities and with no judgment, there's all the safety and the magic and...
Strother (37:24)
Yeah.
Jiani (37:34)
The future is yours because you have all the permissions that you need. So good to have you. Strother.
Strother (37:38)
Yeah, I'd love to meet you. Thank u
What is Immersive Play Therapy?
At its core, immersive play therapy creates environments where adults can adopt roles—through costume pieces, props, masks, or simply guided imagination—that allow them to inhabit something that doesn't feel quite like their everyday self.
Therapist and immersive theater producer Strother Gaines describes it as "a Trojan horse of mental health." Rather than feeling like an intense intervention where you dissect your issues, it surrounds you with an experience that does therapeutic work almost as a byproduct of your engagement. As Strother explains, "Can I create work that is designed to do that as opposed to doing it as a byproduct?"
The approach draws from multiple wells: theatrical performance traditions, therapeutic role-play, game design, and yes, classic play therapy—which has long been used with children but rarely adapted thoughtfully for adults.
Think of it as creating what immersive theater practitioners call "the magic circle"—a bounded space where different rules apply, where you're invited to explore without the usual consequences, where failing is expected and learning is built into the design.
The Power of Self-Distancing
One of the most fascinating aspects of this work is what happens when we create distance between our everyday identity and the role we're playing.
When Strother first did full drag as "Joanne Fabrics," something unexpected happened. Growing up in rural Kentucky where femininity was looked down upon—in anyone—he'd spent years restricting his movements, his voice, his natural expressiveness. "As a queer person growing up in that space, there were lots of times when anything that I would do that felt effeminate, I would either butch it up or try to lock that down or speak in a lower voice or not move my hips in that way," he recalls.
In drag, the pendulum swung completely to the other side. But here's the revelation: afterward, when he returned to his "default self," his capacity had expanded. "I now expanded my capacity with what I had done in my body," Strother explains. "That feels really good over there... coming back into my masculine side as well, I felt more comfortable on that side too, because I'd spread into the feminine side."
This is the magic of self-distancing through role-play. "I'm not worried about anybody judging Joanne as feminine because that's who she is," Strother notes. "But the turn of it all is it's still me in that body. I'm still making that choice. I'm the one learning and experiencing. It's just my perception of how people are looking at me that changes."
The same principle applies to any aspect of ourselves we're struggling with. Want to be more assertive? Try on a costume piece—sunglasses, a power blazer, a particular piece of jewelry—and inhabit that assertive character. Notice how it feels in your body. Where do you lead from? Your chest? Your shoulders? Your hips?
These aren't just psychological shifts. They're visceral, embodied discoveries.
Moving Through Shame
Perhaps nowhere is immersive play more powerful than in addressing shame—that voice that tells us we're fundamentally flawed, that if people really knew us, they'd reject us.
"It's really hard to judge yourself or to fear judgment when you're engaged in play," Strother observes. "Play, we know we're gonna mess up. Like if you're playing Mario Kart, you know you're gonna lose sometimes... But in the real world we think we aren't allowed. If I fail, everyone will judge me or I will judge myself."
Imagine designing an experience where you play a hero in a small world. People depend on you. And then—you make a mistake. A big one. Maybe you wrongly blame someone, and they lose something valuable as a result.
But here's where it diverges from real life: you're surrounded by supportive characters—a wise mentor, loving friends, perhaps a therapist figure within the narrative. They guide you through acknowledgment, through the uncomfortable work of repair. You have a conversation with the person you wronged. Maybe it ends with a hug, or a handshake, or simply mutual understanding.
You've just had the embodied experience of moving through shame rather than being paralyzed by it. You've learned, in your body and not just your mind, that mistakes don't have to mean the end of connection—they can be portals to deeper authenticity.
The Question of Access
Of course, creating elaborate immersive experiences raises questions about accessibility and scale. Mental health services are already overwhelmed. How can something this intricate serve more people?
The exploration continues. Some practitioners are investigating virtual reality experiences. Others are designing smaller, repeatable formats that don't require a cast of dozens. Still others are learning to integrate simple play elements into traditional therapy—a single costume piece, a mask, a reframing of the session itself as entering a "magic circle."
The key insight? You don't need Broadway-level production value for play to work its magic. Humans are remarkably willing to suspend disbelief. Give them something—a hat, a threshold to cross, an invitation to step into a role—and most people will meet you there, ready to explore.
Your Permission Slip
Here's what immersive play therapy ultimately offers: permission. Permission to experiment. Permission to fail safely. Permission to discover that the rigid boundaries we've built around who we're allowed to be are far more negotiable than we thought.
As Strother notes, "I sometimes take issue with the idea of childlike wonder because I think that we have adult wonder as well. And it's just as powerful and just as unique. And it's just because we feel that's not what it means to be an adult that we avoid that."
So consider this your invitation: What character have you always wanted to try on? What part of yourself have you kept locked away because it didn't fit the expectations of your gender, your profession, your family story?
Find one small costume piece. Put it on. Look in the mirror.
And notice what shifts.
Discover Hidden Inner Expression through Authentic Play
⭐ Strother Gaines & MAGIC
Strother is a global leader and "Adult Play Therapist" who explores well-being by integrating the transformative power of play into personal growth and business strategy. Drawing on a rich background in theatre, immersive experiences, and therapy/coaching, he creates spaces where individuals rediscover their authentic selves and navigate change with joy.
The unique nature of Strother's work is sustained by two primary competencies: Curator and Translator. As a Curator, he excels at identifying important concepts, discerning their unique elements, and bringing diverse pieces together, whether collecting personal mementos or designing narratives for transformation.
As a Translator, he is comfortable communicating across different and often opposing professional fields, such as the worlds of "tech folks and creatives" or "business and social" work, helping people with disparate approaches understand each other and align on a shared vision. This dual ability allows him to bridge the gap between artistic vision, therapeutic impact, and business sustainability.
Creative Process
Discuss Potential Outlines: human + ai
Create Initial Drafts & Iterate: human + ai
Ensure Guest Alignment: Strother Gaines
Ensure Final Alignment: Dr. Jiani Wu
Initial Publication: Oct 26, 2025
Disclaimer:
AI technologies are harnessed to create initial content derived from genuine conversations. Human re-creation & review are used to ensure accuracy, relevance & quality.
