How Origami Teaches Us How We Learn | Dr. Mark Johnson
In a packed auditorium in Palm Springs, California, Dr. Mark Johnson stood before 400 eager participants with a simple square of paper. His mission: teach everyone to fold a paper object. His method: traditional lecture-style instruction.
"Take that square sheet of paper and fold it like a diamond," he began, launching into step-by-step verbal directions. "Fold the right corner over to the left corner and crease down the center. Now take the right corner and fold it along the center crease..."
The result? Chaos. People looked around confused, copying neighbors who were equally lost. When it was over, exactly one person out of 400 had successfully made the paper object correctly.
This wasn't because people were slow learners. It was something else entirely.
The Latency Crisis
Dr. Mark calls it "latency"—the gap between when information is delivered and when learners apply it. Think back to high school algebra. Remember walking out asking, "When will I ever use this?" That confusion, that disconnect, is latency in action.
"Learning doesn't happen during delivery," Dr. Mark explains. "It starts with discovery." While teachers eloquently lecture, real learning remains dormant until students engage with the material themselves.
Research backs this up: adult learners mentally check out every three to five minutes during lectures. In a 30-minute presentation, you lose your audience five times if you never actively engage them. The result? Maybe 10% retention if you're lucky.
But Dr. Mark noticed something when he tried a different approach.
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MAGICademy Podcast (00:00)
Latency is the time simply from which I deliver the information as the instructor and that the learner actually applies the information. Learning is not in the delivery, it's in the discovery. The best evaluation doesn't come from external but from within. Creativity doesn't mean much if I can't do anything with it. I have to evaluate. They have to coexist. Join the dance.
MAGICademy Podcast (00:27)
beep beep beep. In front of you lands a spaceship and out walks a friendly alien.
If the alien walks could be by other movement. If you were to invite the alien to play by picking one word, one sound or one movement, what would that be?
Mark Johnson (00:43)
Come.
MAGICademy Podcast (00:43)
love it
Mark Johnson (00:44)
I know in some languages that is also hello, but it's a greeting. Come.
MAGICademy Podcast (00:47)
Hello? Come.
turning learning into a process of active discovery. why this is so important in the current time of our evolution?
Mark Johnson (01:03)
Well, I believe that some educators have.
forgotten or got confused with what learning actually is. Learning doesn't happen during our delivery. It starts with their discovery. So as eloquent as I may be, as great as a lecturer or storyteller I might be, learning doesn't happen until the learner
can take it and resonate within. They can make something related to their life and they begin to understand. But while we're just giving the information, learning is not necessarily happening.
MAGICademy Podcast (01:45)
And there are some saying that when you teach me something I forget and when you guide me to do something then I remember. So I guess the very action of doing has something to do with our memories and with our processing of information and ultimately integrate that into our daily behaviors and actions and that as a result of learning.
Mark Johnson (01:53)
That's correct.
Exactly correct.
It doesn't matter what we're learning, if we're not engaged in it fully, the chances of us retaining that material are fractional. As we've discovered and research has shown, there are three types of experiences in learning. Symbolic, where I read about it. Vicarious, where I watch it. And there is direct, where I'm actually doing it.
and research has always shown that direct experience is far superior than symbolic or vicarious experience. The best way to assure that somebody gets something is to have them actually involved in the learning
MAGICademy Podcast (02:49)
What do you mean by latency and how does it play a role in the process of discovery?
Mark Johnson (02:57)
latency is the time simply from which I deliver the information as the instructor and that the learner actually applies the information. For most folks, that's a while. Matter of fact, think back
your high school class and you walked out and said, when am I ever going to use that? That was latency because you didn't know what to do with it. So we can remove that latency by making them apply it or do something with it much faster in the process. The sooner we have them do it, the less likely they will not recall what they saw.
The sooner they get it, the sooner they see it and do something with it, the faster they learn it and retain it. And that's what latency is, is that difference between hearing it and doing it.
MAGICademy Podcast (03:47)
So if we sit through like a large lecture for 30 minutes, then we're missing a lot of opportunities because the latency is rampant. It's like a big latency between.
Mark Johnson (03:56)
Absolutely. And further,
as research shows, adult learners become disengaged every three to five minutes. So that means in a 30-minute lecture, I've lost the audience five times if I've never actively engaged them in the process. If I talk to them for the full 30 minutes, maybe 10 % of them will actually get what I told them. But if I engage them immediately,
I can raise that to almost 100 % student performance.
MAGICademy Podcast (04:34)
before we dive deeper. I can't wait to follow you and do the plant folding.
Mark Johnson (04:42)
two 8 1 2 1 2 sheets of Fold that bottom up like I told you. Fold the triangle, fold that bottom up, and you'll have an 8 1 2 1 by 8 1 2 1 2 sheets of
Now take that bottom part and fold it up, that square part at the bottom. Fold it up, yeah. There you go. So now you actually have the 8 1⁄2 x 11 sheet of Okay!
So, now are you ready? So, I'm going do this two times. The first time, I'm going to teach you the way teachers have taught students for ages, and that's by lecture. I'm going to tell you what to do. I'm not going to show you. I'm just going to give you each step, and you're going to do what I tell you to do, and we'll continue all the way through. Don't ask any questions.
MAGICademy Podcast (05:06)
Yes.
Mark Johnson (05:29)
just do as I say when I say. Are you ready? Okay, step number one, take that square sheet of paper and fold it, hold it like a diamond first of all, hold it like a diamond, there you go, and fold that right corner over to the left corner and crease down the center. Fold the right corner over to the left corner, all the way over.
and crease down the center. Now take the right corner.
After you've made the crease, take the right corner and fold it along the center crease. Open it up and fold the right corner along the center crease.
Just do as I say, right corner along the center crease. Then take the left corner and fold it along the center crease.
Now take the bottom and fold it up.
So as you can see already, you've gotten lost, right? So here are the directions that I gave you. I said fold the right corner to the left corner. I said then open it up. But then I said fold the right corner along that center crease. So you should have had something that looked like that. Then you fold the left corner over.
along the center crease just like you did with the right corner so it looks something like that. Then I have an obvious bottom and I fold it up and then I fold it up one more time
MAGICademy Podcast (06:39)
So. ⁓
Mark Johnson (06:46)
I have a sailboat. So here's the thing, Johnny. I did this same thing I've done it thousands of times across the United States and Canada. My largest group, had 400 people in Palm Springs, California, and I did the same thing. One guy in the room got it right. The average is less than 10 % of the audience can hear what we tell them and actually do anything with it.
less than 10%, which tells us, guess what? Not much learning is happening during lecture. So now let's try to, yeah, and you know what happens in an audience? It's different because you're by yourself, but what happens in a large audience? After a step, everybody starts looking at everybody else and they start copying their neighbor.
MAGICademy Podcast (07:21)
I lost at step two.
I see the other person.
Mark Johnson (07:37)
their neighbor doesn't know what they're doing, but because it looks like what I'm doing, I say must be right and I keep doing it even though it's wrong. The lesson for the teacher is I must role model the behavior I want them to learn. If I don't role model, they will go look for it from my neighbor or someplace else and it may be right or wrong.
MAGICademy Podcast (07:39)
Hahaha
Mark Johnson (08:01)
So if I want to make sure they get it right, I as the instructor have to model the behavior. So now we're going to do this a second time, and I'll see if I can do any better. So make the paper 8 and 1 half by 8 and 1 half like we did the first time. Make that square sheet of paper.
If you will, fold that triangle or flap up and put that flap inside the triangle. Put it inside the triangle so it disappears. There you go. Awesome. Okay? So what you've done is you've completed step one. Hold your triangle so it looks like this. Okay? Now what I want you to do is I want you to the one corner and fold it around in front so it touches...
this other side about right here. In other words, I want it even with the bottom. Yours is drooping. Make it even just like that. You got it. Almost. Make that point touch. There you are. Very good. So crease right here. Now what I want you to do is do the same thing with this corner and fold it over in front so that it touches this corner right here. Perfect. Excellent.
Now you notice that I have two flaps at the top. Take the flap nearest the folded side and fold it down over the folded side. There you go, perfect. Turn it around...
Now take this flap on top that's left and the flat side with no folds and fold it down over that side.
Now take the top part, put your fingers in it, open it up, and you have a paper cup. as I tell people, the next time you have a party and you forget the cups, say, don't worry, Dr. Johnson taught me how to make a cup.
And it works every gu-
MAGICademy Podcast (09:49)
⁓
Mark Johnson (09:51)
So, notice what happened. The first time you got lost, you weren't able to do anything. This time I had the same number of steps, but notice what I did. I told you and showed you, you did it, and I told you whether it was right or wrong, and then we went to step two, and I did that for every step.
MAGICademy Podcast (09:51)
Cheers.
Mark Johnson (10:14)
And by doing that for every step, you were able to complete what I wanted you to do the first time in six steps. So I got 100 % performance. So that group of 400 people that I told you about in California, I did the same thing. All 400 people held the paper cup up at the same time. I can teach everybody in the room how to do it if I follow
the right procedure.
And the reason that happened is no latency. Before, I talked to you all the way through it. This time, I set a step, you did it, and so on. Can you make the paper cup again without me telling you?
Very good. Very good. In the teaching process, this would be called coaching. She's taken my instruction and she's doing it and I'm only commenting if she makes a mistake and she hasn't made any. She's already mastered it in two tries.
And that is full application. So the first time she was applying it as I taught her, then she applied it on her own. In class, I would probably make her do it a third and fourth time, but this time I would have her do it with another student and they would have peer instruction because we understand that peer engagement is important. And then she'd do it again for me and she'd have it perfect. But she's already got it.
MAGICademy Podcast (11:33)
the peer interaction is very interesting. It's where you potentially turn yourself into a peer coach. So if we see someone doing something, that's where we can provide feedback. And maybe innovation can potentially come out of it. It's like, don't
Mark Johnson (11:34)
Go ahead.
Well,
when I make my learners become peer evaluators, they are raising their learning from mere application to actual evaluation. So I have increased the learning experience for all the learners in the
MAGICademy Podcast (12:03)
reminds me of like an 8, like an infinity sign, and on the left it's like evalution, on the right it's creation, and then the full circle is called discovery!
Mark Johnson (12:13)
Exactly, exactly.
That's how we learn. And that's how we solidify what we learn, because we're able to do something with it, experiment, and then we learn from our mistakes, we adjust it, and we now begin creating new possibilities.
MAGICademy Podcast (12:30)
there is actually a dynamic balance between the magic of evaluation and the magic of creation and the magic of active discovery through creating and evaluating. That's beautiful.
Mark Johnson (12:45)
To me as a pragmatist, because I'm very pragmatic and practical as I teach people in the workplace, creativity doesn't mean much if I can't do anything with it. I have to evaluate. In the workplace, know, I this new idea, well that's cool, but how much does it cost me? Does it improve how I work? Does it improve how I think? Does it improve performance? And I evaluate, and then I may say, well no it didn't.
So now I gotta tweak it and I gotta recreate so that it does. But the point is, they have to coexist.
MAGICademy Podcast (13:19)
And then the evaluation can come from a coach, a mentor, a guide, or the evaluation can later coming through our own based on our own judgment and evaluation.
Mark Johnson (13:29)
And ultimately,
the best evaluation doesn't come from external, but from within. Because when somebody else is critiquing me, that means I'm still learning. But when I become a master, I do the work, I make a mistake, I see it, and I can correct it and fix my own mistake. That's when I become a true masterful worker, is when I fix my own mistakes.
Because if I only get to apply and I can do it, but I don't know if it's right or wrong, somebody's got to come around and clean up my mistakes. But if I can do it and fix my own mistakes, then I'm a quality worker. And that's what we're getting for with our learners is not just be able to do it, but be able to do it and rethink it and evaluate it and make sure it's correct.
MAGICademy Podcast (14:25)
And it applies to the work situation. It also applies to the entrepreneurial situation where we work to create ventures, to create services, to create experiences. And also something just come to my mind, it's another framework for guiding the learning. It's called the Finks taxonomy.
Blooms focuses a lot on the cognition, the how.
and the what of executions. The thinks taxonomy provides a more expensive framework where it taps into caring about fellows, learning to care, learning to emphasize. learning how to learn learning how to lead.
and there may be some exact term on that.
I think that's also part of the discovery. It's like the discovery is the process of making things happen, like in engineering, in entrepreneurship, in everything that we need to actualize something.
Mark Johnson (15:23)
as we teach people, it's not just about having them do the tasks, the pragmatic side. It's also understanding the why. Helping learners understand, why are you making me do this? Why is this important? The relevance of it.
And it goes back to what I said about the learning is not the delivery, but the discovery. As the learner then begins, oh, that's what I need to learn this more. That's why I need to do this. And then translate that to their own experience and say, you know, if I would known how to do this then in this situation, I could have done that better. So now they're resonating and relating it to their past experiences and they're coming up with solutions.
through their own experience and that solidifies the learning. Instead of just me telling them, well, you make a cup because, they realize the because from their own experience.
MAGICademy Podcast (16:15)
usually have something to do with other human beings because we connect with each other and that's a way for connection.
Mark Johnson (16:18)
Yeah.
After
all that.
MAGICademy Podcast (16:25)
how does this methodology contribute to innovation,
Mark Johnson (16:30)
on one of the other things that I do is I'm a black belt in innovation engineering. And we help people rethink how to create and we think about the creativity process and then how actually take that through commercialization and actually patent so they can do something with it. But in that process, one of the things that we learned quickly is,
We have a saying fail fast fail cheap in other words I'm going to try it and I'm going to do it if I fail I'm going to tweak it I'm going to try it again, and I'm going to do that very rapid succession so that I'm learning and tweaking Continuously, but if I get to a point where I've done it I've done it and I've done it and I've done it, but it ain't getting better then we scrap the idea and we start over because
I don't want to a lot of time and money and an idea that may go nowhere. I may take a piece of that and retake it in a different direction. And now I work that idea and work on it creatively to come up with the use and practicality of it. But that's how this thought of learning and discovery and application becomes so important is you got this great idea. That's cool. But how are you going to
How are going to sell that idea? How are the people going to make use of that idea? How is this going to change the world? And then, so I've got to tweak it and adjust it. I'm going to do some focus groups. I'm going to work with people with my idea and see if they get it. And hopefully they do. If not, I've got to tweak it until people understand it and it catches on.
MAGICademy Podcast (18:07)
So it's a rapid iteration in a very disciplined way. It's also a process of discovery, guided discovery in the end. So maybe for this paper cup, I realized that, oh, I wish there could be like a bigger bottom here than I set up on this quest. Like, oh, is there any way for me to maybe potentially fold the bottom on this cup? So that starts the whole discovery process.
Mark Johnson (18:09)
Yes.
Yes.
Yeah, and maybe it takes a bigger piece of paper. Maybe it takes a different shape of the piece of paper. Maybe it takes different weight of paper. You used copy paper, but what if you use construction paper, etc. That might change the form and function. So you might just see different, and you start tweaking the and playing with it.
MAGICademy Podcast (19:05)
beautiful. As you are guiding the students to discover, there's also an important aspect, the storytelling piece of it.
How would you infuse the aspect of storytelling into this integrated process of learning as a discovery?
Mark Johnson (19:28)
So, one of the things you learned from me a long time ago is the art of visualization and the ability to see things, especially when connected with memory. That happens through a storytelling process. So, I give you a list of 15 words and you just look at the list of the words and you may have a hard time remembering the 15 words.
MAGICademy Podcast (19:33)
Hehehe
Mark Johnson (19:49)
But if I take those 15 words and I put them into a story and begin to weave that story together so that I can see things step by step by step, pretty soon you're walking through and seeing everything. So I tell the story. And this is based, of course, upon an old concept from Socrates from 3,000 years ago, the method of loci from Greece.
And the method of loci, location, is I see everything in its place. So I give you a list, like I make you walk through a house and I have you look over to the side and you see there's the front of the house, there's the door. I walk in the door and I step on the carpet and it's made of newspaper, shredded newspaper. And I walk across it and there's a bed, big bed, king-size bed in the middle of the room.
And on it is this big fish, huge fish, 120 pound fish. And then above the wall, above the fish is a picture with a mahogany frame. And it's a beautiful tropical island sunset with a volcano in the picture. Below the picture of the volcano is that fish on the bed and he's wearing a rubber boot and smoking a cigar, a big stogie cigar, a stinky cigar. It's a foot long, three inches in diameter.
He puffs and spits that cigar out, flies across the room, and hits a vase sitting on a table across the room. It's a Ming dynasty vase, 700 years old, sitting on a table, old barn wood table, rickety old thing, standing in front of the window. So when the fish spits the cigar out, he knocks the vase off the table, and it flies out the window and lands in a bed of flowers. Beautiful red roses.
big bed of beautiful red roses. But when it hits the roses, there is a heavy metal object, an anvil in the roses, and it cracks and breaks into a million pieces. So as you stop and think of my list, all you have to do is walk through the house.
Can you try it, Jiani
MAGICademy Podcast (21:53)
Yeah, I wanna try it.
So there's this house and there's door, there's a carpet on the floor, the carpet is made of newspapers and there's a bed and on the bed there is a big fish, very big fish and there's a picture of a sunset scene and there's a volcano, active volcano there.
and then coming back to the fish the fish is smoking a big huge cigar and then the with the boots as well i don't know where the boots come from but it's there and then the the the fish spit the cigar out
through the window sill and there was a beautiful Qing dynasty vase and it got hit off the window and then to a bed of red roses and however there's a ⁓ harsh metal there so the big Qing dynasty vase fell into
beautiful, yet dangerous pieces.
Mark Johnson (22:58)
Yes,
and so the only word you missed, where was the vase at?
MAGICademy Podcast (23:02)
on the window sill, a table.
Mark Johnson (23:04)
Not on the
table. But see, all I had to do was ask you, and the picture was there. You had the answer. See, what most people don't understand is that we all have photographic memories. So if we can take the information and turn it to a story, a picture that we can see, just like you did, that took me what? Thirty seconds.
And you learned a list of 15 words and repeated it right back at me because you saw what I told you. So the act of engagement and storytelling is taking this dry, lifeless list of words and turning it into a story.
And I ask most students when you read a book that you're really engrossed in, do you see words on a page or do you see it like a movie folding through your head, like a running story? And you can see the people, the images, the places. It's almost like a movie running in your head because you are actually seeing the word. You're seeing the story. You're not hearing the words off the page.
MAGICademy Podcast (24:08)
challenge question.
Mark Johnson (24:09)
Sure.
MAGICademy Podcast (24:10)
Can all of us create those imageries? Will there be people who...
can't visually see in their mind and in that case what how how should we help them
Mark Johnson (24:29)
That's a good question.
So I can't say 100 % that everybody does, but I can say that almost all humans can do this. That's the brain that we were given when we were born. Unfortunately, there are accidents, injuries, there is trauma, there are...
disabilities or things that sometimes get in the way. However, an interesting thing in my experience, I've done this with thousands of people and I've had people that have had brain concussions from motorcycle accidents. I had one guy from New York had three different concussions and he said, Doc, I just can't remember as well as I used to. But I taught him this technique and he was able to repeat every word.
He said, I've never been able to do that. He had a student that had a similar situation back in New York. He taught him and he was able to do that. So for the most part, people can. But again, like I say, it's not 100 % because of whatever. One thing I do want to mention is, so if any of our listeners have people with dementia or Alzheimer's,
The thought is that we are losing our memories as get old. No, we're not. the problem is the short-term memory in the frontal cortex and moving it to long-term by making it visual, making it vivid, it makes it easier to recall. So people with dementia and Alzheimer's may not remember your name or what they had for lunch.
But if you ask them about something that happened 40 years ago, they'll tell you everything that happened. They'll tell you who was there, they'll tell you what happened, what was said, because it is vivid, it's locked in into their long-term memory. And so they still have it. So everybody has this concrete memory of things. Most of our problem is not that we can't remember, we just can't remember where we put it.
We can't tag it. We know it's there. Have you ever, for example, have you ever said, I know that face, I just can't remember the name? Well, think about it. So think about it. The last time I saw you, Jiani, you didn't have a big name tag that said Jiani under your neck. So there's a hard way to connect a name to a face.
MAGICademy Podcast (26:40)
all the time
Mark Johnson (26:56)
because we never saw the name, we only heard the name. So if I don't practice that and use that regularly in our conversations and as I teach, the more I use your name, the more I retain the name with your face. So our problem is that we see things, but if we don't immediately connect what it is or what it's for, it's there, but...
it doesn't stand out because there's no tag for me to remember. But if I can place a picture and a tag together, then I'll be more able to remember.
MAGICademy Podcast (27:34)
And I think that will tie it back to where we started. It's like learning is a embodied process of discovery. And ⁓ in this process of folding this paper cup, I have to visually see it. And I have to hear the story that I'm folding this cup and you have this user scenario, like in a party, someone needs a cup. There is. So my motivation is next time when I'm in the party,
there's missing a cup, I at least can contribute some value. And just by me folding this cup and seeing it, I get to remember it. And I have the motivation to really harness my energy to actually learn to this
Mark Johnson (28:13)
And then you take it from there and you discover, okay, now I can do different types of material or make it different shapes. I can make big cups. I can make martini glasses. I can make whiskey. I can make different shapes and sizes. I can have a whole bar set of paper cups.
MAGICademy Podcast (28:31)
yeah
I just feel so happy and I'm I'm tempted to eat something sweet. That's beautiful.
Mark Johnson (28:33)
Sorry. Made you hungry.
MAGICademy Podcast (28:41)
So, and as we ⁓ proceed into talking about the magic in terms of the idea of latency, in terms of the idea of integrated
instruction in terms of learning as a process of discovery, a story plays a role in helping us to remember and to motivate visuals help us retain information and retrieve information. Are we missing core ideas that you think our audience needs to hear?
Mark Johnson (29:11)
think we're touching very close to it. I think when it comes down to the absolute core concept is to go back to what I've said that learning is not in the delivery, it's in the discovery. And that happens through the audience or learner engagement. So if I'm just teaching by lecturing or I show but they don't ever get a chance to do it till later,
The learning isn't happening until they do something with it. Interesting thing is, so think about kindergartners and how they learn. Little four and five-year-olds learn by playing and doing and practicing. They don't sit and listen to teachers talk at them. They're actively doing things. Well, guess what? The human mind is that way throughout our lifelong journey.
Even though we've been told, well, you go to class and you lecture and uh-uh, the mind must be engaged. So even if I'm going to a training session and you're trying to teach me about a new policy or procedure or something, if you don't have me engaged, I'm like that little five-year-old, I'm off playing. Now, maybe not physically.
but I am mentally and I've become disengaged and I'm not even paying attention to what you do. So it doesn't matter whether I'm five or 55, if you don't engage me, you're not gonna keep me and I'm not gonna learn.
MAGICademy Podcast (30:40)
So that that ties to the childlike sense of ⁓ wonder, the childlike sense of discovery, because when we were little, it's a process of discovering just by our nature of that. How do you define childlike wonder or childlike vitality in the landscape of learning and development?
Mark Johnson (30:53)
Absolutely.
So the act happens is once I've given it you go, I've given it to you and now you play and discover on your own. You try to do new things. So I taught you how to make a cup and now you've turned it into a party hat. So now you have dual purpose with the cup.
MAGICademy Podcast (31:23)
You
Sorry, I totally missed it. I was getting distracted.
Mark Johnson (31:30)
No, it's fun watching
you play and learn. That's very cool.
MAGICademy Podcast (31:34)
So how do you define childlike wonder and vitality?
Mark Johnson (31:41)
Again, it is in that discovery process. So we've given and delivered the information. We've showed them, we've coached them, we taught them as they did it, as we did. But now it's going be that simple saying, now I have to shut up. As the teacher, I have to let go of it. I have to let you take it and try it and play with it and do something.
MAGICademy Podcast (31:58)
Hahaha
Mark Johnson (32:05)
Because if I'm still guiding you, you're not discovering, you're just paying attention to what I do and following what I do. But when I let go of it and you start to do it and you start to develop it, then it becomes discovery. That's when it starts to solidify. I have to let go at some point and let them. But the key is for mastery, I can't let go too quick. If I just go through it real quick and they say, there you go, well,
they're going to make mistakes and a lot of them, they're not going to get it right. And they may be discovering things that you really didn't intend. So what I have to do is in that instruction process, like I did with the paper cup, I have to coach and guide you through doing it right. Then I shut up and I let you play and discover. But otherwise, if I you to create and play too soon,
You may not learn the skill I need you to do. I have to make sure that you've completed that task successfully. Then you can play and maybe you come up with a better way of doing it. But especially in manufacturing and the trades industry, let's face it, there are just certain ways things have to be done from a safety point of view or a production point of view. You can't get creative. You got to follow certain rules.
But maybe now after you've learned the what and the why, now you discover, well, maybe I can do it a little quicker, or maybe I can do it a little better. That's where the creativity piece comes to play.
MAGICademy Podcast (33:39)
where creativity actually fuels innovation because they may notice some problems and they can harness that to solve the problems through discovery.
Mark Johnson (33:47)
Exactly. I've
had discussions with teachers over the years and they believe in creativity and I do too, but they believe creativity is just handing it over and saying, go learn. Well, what you're doing is trial by error and people learn that way, but it's not very efficient. But if I want to spur the efficiency, then I will guide them through the what and the why. Then I let them create and play with it and build upon the base foundation of what I taught them.
now they're really growing in the right direction. But if I just give it to them and say go, they may or may not find a way to where I need them to be.
MAGICademy Podcast (34:32)
So actually, as we started, we said learning is not a delivery, but a discovery. Now I come to this realization is that learning is actually a guided discovery. So there are space, there are valid space where the instruction will and need to take space in order to guide.
the initial exploration and there is a valid space later on or in between in an integrated way to create space for people to explore and to discover so feels like again just like the creation and evaluation delivery and discovery is kind of in that tendon as well work hand in hand
Mark Johnson (35:17)
Absolutely. And a simple
example of that is like morally and ethically how we perform our work. Yes, you can do that, but that's probably not appropriate. So the guided piece is helping you understand the rules of society or the rules, expectations of our profession, what you can and cannot do. And now once you understand the parameters,
Now you can discover and grow it. I don't want you to grow it in a illegal or immoral form. I want you to use it in a right way. And so those are just some basic constructs that I want my students to understand is that you also have a moral and ethical boundary to which to play and grow in. And if you go outside the lines, that's questionable.
MAGICademy Podcast (36:07)
beautiful. I like how we concluded the concept in a very iterative and kind of fluid way. as we move, then let's move to the magic piece of it. So what did you enjoy creating so much when you were 11 years old that time disappeared for you?
Mark Johnson (36:25)
So when I was 11 years old growing up on farm, really didn't have, my closest friend was my cousin, he lived four and a half miles away. So I really didn't have a lot of people to play with in a close neighborhood. So I had this immense imagination. I would go out and I'd be outside and then I'd play cops and robbers, cowboys and Indians. There was nobody else around, it just me, but in my head, my imagination.
And maybe that's what spurred me. So here I am in my sixties, but I've been in 20 community theater performances because I love to get up on stage and act and perform. But I think that started when I started developing that culture of play acting and performing by myself when I was at home on the farm.
MAGICademy Podcast (37:11)
beautiful. I resonate with that too. When I was little I would I usually played by myself because my parents are always very busy and people around they all have their own thing to do and I think getting into the space of imagination and the storyline it just get very interesting you are you're immersed in this experience that
it's not experienceable in reality and that creates a release like ⁓ my goodness I through my imagination I get to live different lives
Mark Johnson (37:47)
That's
what I That's what I want.
MAGICademy Podcast (37:50)
Beautiful. How do you, as you mentioned, childlike vitality and wonder is a sense of embodied discovery. How do you keep this alive? And first, how does this relate to what you do now in life at all?
Mark Johnson (38:05)
So,
my greatest lesson right now of creativity and imagination is my nine-year-old grandson. I remember way back when he was two years old, and I got a picture of it, and it was vivid. So we would always take a walk around the block, and we'd walk around, and he'd stop, and he'd point at trees or look at birds and squirrels. But in particular,
We were walking and the sun was behind us and it was casting a shadow. so, Papa's shadow was big and long on the sidewalk. And of course, he's a two-year-old, so his was not very tall and it was short, but it would cast a shadow too. And at one point, my grandson stops, he bends down and he looks really close at the shadow.
And then he turns and looks up at me and he looks at the big long shadow. And then he looks at his short shadow. But he was discovering. He was reading about the sun and shadows and size and shapes. And his mind was inquiring about why is Papa's shadow so long? Why is mine so short? Why is... And so he was... And I just sat and watched. It was the coolest thing.
watching him try to figure that out. What's going on here? Why is this happening? And so, and I've seen him do that multiple times as he's growing older is he's always inquisitive. He's always seeing things and taking a whole new perspective that I didn't even see coming. But he's thinking about this over here. And again, as I've said, if we take the opportunity to just shut up and listen.
and watch, my God, we can learn a thing or two. And I've learned a lot from my grandson. He reminds me to shut up and just watch and learn and discover. And if we do that, that just keeps his learning and growing.
MAGICademy Podcast (40:06)
And that's how we grow professionally too, as well.
Mark Johnson (40:10)
Absolutely.
So here I am, 64. Probably most professors my age are retiring or cruising to retirement. And I continually learn new things. I've changed things. A big example is five years ago, three years ago, I made this discovery about Gen Z, folks. I teach college students. Young generation doesn't learn the way I did where you sat through a three-hour lecture.
I had this class all online. had my videos. They were canned. I had 30 and 45 minute videos. I thought, that's cool. Until I noticed nobody was watching my videos. I could tell by the test scores. So I said, what's going on? Well, Doc, I don't have time for a 45 minute video. I got 10 minute breaks. So I can't watch them on break. I get home. Got to do chores and laundry and cook the dishes and cook and clean and...
get the kids, I'm pooped, I don't have time for it. So I thought, okay, so I can either tell them suck it up buttercup, that's what I used to do, or I could learn and change to fit their needs. So I trashed all my videos and I recorded 80 two minute videos. And so I broke each chapter into mini-lixurettes. And so two minute video activity, two minute video activity.
So went back and I asked him, said, what do you think? Oh, I love it. I can watch two or three in the morning, two or three in the afternoon. I can watch the other one or two at night and I can watch the whole lesson. I never could do that before. But now you've allowed me to break it into smaller chunks. And guess what happened to test scores? Shot right up because everybody could now become engaged where they're at.
I couldn't force them to come to me. I had to meet them at their expectations. And so by taking that little experiment, it worked wonders. And I get rave reviews about the many videos now because at first they go, 80 videos, but then they realize they're short and sweet. And they go, no, I like them. They're perfect.
MAGICademy Podcast (42:20)
You
That's beautiful. That's beautiful. That reminds me of this podcast. If people are watching it, it's gonna be about like 45 minutes to an hour. How can we potentially chop it down to like one minute with some activities? Oh my goodness. That's my homework. Yeah, yeah. Maybe like adding like a...
Mark Johnson (42:30)
You
Ha ha ha.
Yeah, you're gonna do some editing on this one.
MAGICademy Podcast (42:49)
something to trigger their action, maybe even as simple as a reflection every five minutes maybe.
Beautiful. Overall, what do you think is your magic?
Mark Johnson (43:00)
I've been told, and I think I agree with it, a related story in my new book. One of my students says, so here's the cool thing, Dr. Johnson, is...
I love to talk, right? But she said, but you also listen because what you do that is unique among teachers I've seen is that you're able to teach concept and then you listen to other people's stories and you hear it from their perspective. Then what you do is you take their perspective and bring it back and connect it to the concept you were trying to teach.
And so now all of a sudden, their story is becoming part of your lesson and you are ⁓ verifying their learning. And she says that goes a long way to empathy and belonging because somebody not only heard their story, but they verified it. And so I guess the magic trait that I have is the ability
to take you wherever you are and connect you to where I need you to be. But I do it through your experience and make it happen and make it become a learning experience that you can learn from.
MAGICademy Podcast (44:15)
beautiful. I feel like this world needs more of that magic is to meet for where they are and then then bring them to where they need to be.
Mark Johnson (44:23)
That's one reason if you let me do the gig, that's why I wrote the book. ⁓
MAGICademy Podcast (44:29)
The
training design simplified.
Mark Johnson (44:31)
Breaking tradition. So making people rethink what they thought they knew, but help them discover for themselves, we can do so much better.
MAGICademy Podcast (44:40)
A beautiful yet very timely message for our audience to hear. And regardless whether you are, what role you play, maybe you are someone working in a company, maybe you're someone who has the responsibility to manage a team, maybe you're someone who is building a business, a startup, maybe you're here.
as a passionist or passionista doing something and exploring something. This is the message for you
wherever you are, think in terms of how can I embody this discovery? How can I embody this guided discovery? And how can I live in this symbiotic dance of learning and practicing and discovery, evaluating and creating and that's beautiful loop.
Mark Johnson (45:35)
It's kind of like a dance.
Join the dance. Get up off your feet and join the dance.
MAGICademy Podcast (45:38)
Join the dance.
Enjoy the dance. I love that. We need to have some music right here. Thank you.
Mark Johnson (45:46)
Johnny, it's
been so wonderful catching up with you and sharing my thoughts and ideas. And it's great to see you and the great things that you're doing and the stories that you're sharing. What a wonderful thing that you're doing. And thank you for letting me be part of that experience.
MAGICademy Podcast (46:03)
And thank you, ⁓ Professor Mark for coming back into the life that we shared together. And I still remember
years ago that we met in Pittsburgh State University and your passion of teaching and learning and your passion of
discovery and guiding people left a really deep impression in me and I feel this reunion is a beautiful reconnection to that moment of light, to the moment of vitality, vibrant energy.
pure beingness and helping other people. So I'm just very grateful that we get to talk about life as a discovery.
Mark Johnson (46:48)
Well,
as you recall, we've stayed connected over those years. Every now and then, I would post something and you'd say something and we'd have a conversation on LinkedIn. And then a little while later, here you come back. So it's not like I ever left. I've always been here. But the thing is, is we've stayed connected and we've kept that...
MAGICademy Podcast (47:07)
Yeah, you're okay.
Mark Johnson (47:14)
power of wonder there. And you and I have always had great conversations about that. You just don't ask the typical questions. You always ask the why or the what or what do you think? And I would tell you. And so we had great conversations. And this has been another great one.
MAGICademy Podcast (47:32)
beautiful and let's keep this going next time we'll have a new topic for our audience. Thank you Professor Mark, much appreciated.
Mark Johnson (47:40)
Sounds great. Thank you so much, Jan.
Have a great day. Thank you.
MAGICademy Podcast (47:46)
me too
Mark Johnson (47:47)
Bye bye.
MAGICademy Podcast (47:47)
yeah
A Different Approach
Taking the same 400 people, Dr. Mark attempted the paper object lesson again. This time, he followed a simple formula: tell, show, do, coach, repeat.
"Hold your triangle so it looks like this," he demonstrated, showing his paper. "Now fold one corner around in front so it touches this other side, right here." He paused. "Perfect! Now, crease it."
Step by step, participants followed along, completing each action before moving to the next. Dr. Mark provided immediate feedback: "Excellent!" or "Make that point touch right there."
The result? This time, all 400 people held up paper cups that worked.
Same people. Same skill. The difference was removing that gap between hearing and doing.
The Ancient Art of Loci and Storytelling
But Dr. Mark's insights go deeper than just hands-on learning. He draws on a technique from ancient Greece called the "method of loci"—essentially turning dry information into vivid, memorable stories.
"Imagine walking through a house," he tells students, then creates an unusual scene: "Step on a carpet made of shredded newspaper. See a large fish on a bed, wearing a boot and smoking a long cigar. The fish spits the cigar across the room, knocking a vase off a table, out the window, into roses where it breaks on an anvil."
This strange journey helps people remember a list of fifteen random words much more easily. The approach works because our minds naturally organize information through stories and mental images rather than abstract facts. Dr. Mark explains it simply: "When you're reading a book you enjoy, you're not seeing words on a page—you're watching a kind of movie unfold in your head."
"When you read an engrossing book, do you see words on a page or a movie in your head?" Johnson asks. The answer reveals how our brains naturally learn: through stories and images, not abstract information.
What Children Already Know
This approach mirrors how children naturally learn—through play, experimentation, and immediate application. Dr. Mark's nine-year-old grandson demonstrated this perfectly, stopping during a walk to study shadows, comparing his short one to his grandfather's long shadow, actively discovering the relationship between sun, size, and projection.
"That childlike wonder never has to disappear," Dr. Mark notes. "We just need to create space for guided discovery."
Applying the Idea
These ideas work outside the classroom, too. When Dr. Mark noticed his college students weren't watching his 45-minute videos, he didn't lecture them about attention spans. He made 80 two-minute videos instead. Students could watch a few during breaks, and test scores improved.
"I couldn't force them to come to me," he realized. "I had to meet them where they are."
A Simple Shift
Whether you're training someone at work, helping a child with homework, or learning something new yourself, maybe the key is simpler than we think: close the gap between hearing and doing.
The paper origami experiment suggests that good learning isn't about better presentations or fancier technology. It's about creating chances for people to try things out right away.
As Dr. Mark puts it: "Learning doesn't happen during delivery. It starts with discovery."
Sometimes the most important lessons come wrapped in the simplest packages.
⭐ Dr. Mark Johnson
Dr. Mark L. Johnson is a university professor and author with extensive experience in training and development. He teaches at Pittsburg State University, where he focuses on improving teaching and workforce skills, and collaborates with organizations to enhance professional growth. Dr. Johnson holds an EdD in Vocational Education from the University of Arkansas and has contributed to instructor training programs and workforce initiatives at both the state and national levels.
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-mark-l-johnson-076b925/
Book: Training Design Simplified: Breaking Tradition https://lnkd.in/gAUYnjDE (Amazon)
Dr. Mark’s MAGIC
Perhaps Dr. Mark's real magic lies in his ability to meet people exactly where they are and guide them to where they need to be. He listens to their stories, connects those experiences to the concepts he's teaching, and helps learners discover the relevance for themselves. It's less about having all the answers and more about asking the right questions—and then stepping back to let discovery unfold.
Credits & Revisions:
Guest Alignment Reviewer: Dr. Mark Johnson
Story Writer/Editor: Dr. Jiani Wu
AI Partner: Perplexity, Claude
Initial Publication: Aug 6 2025
Disclaimer:
AI technologies are harnessed to create initial content derived from genuine conversations. Human re-creation & review are used to ensure accuracy, relevance & quality.
