Future of AI-Empowered Coaching | Vince Han

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📑 Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Background

04:16 What Makes a Good Coach?

06:36 Case Studies of AI Coaching Success

09:37 Integration of AI in Coaching

14:18 Dynamic Prompting in AI Coaching

21:24 The Role of Childlike Wonder in Coaching

26:37 Future of Coaching with Advanced Tech

34:49 The Role of Human Coaches in the Age of AI

39:34 Vince’s Magic and Conclusion

 

Watch the full episode here.

 

💕 Story Overview

In S3 E11 of @MAGICademy Podcast, we discuss leveraging the power of AI and emerging technologies to redefine and enhance the coaching experience, while addressing the important considerations and challenges involved in integrating intelligent systems into the deeply human-centric practice of coaching with @Vince Han, Founder of Mobile Coach. Vince shares his journey and insights on the evolving landscape of AI-powered coaching. He also addresses important considerations around privacy, bias, and the complementary roles of human and AI coaches.



🌼Magical Insights

  1. Effective Coaching Requires Balance and Awareness: Effective coaching involves balancing long-term goals with short-term actionable steps. At the same time, the coach maintains a keen awareness of the client's context and dynamics, akin to a conductor guiding an orchestra.


  2. AI Provides a Safe Space for Vulnerability: AI-powered coaching can offer people a sense of safety and anonymity, encouraging them to be more open and honest, especially in sensitive or performance-focused situations.


  3. The Future of Coaching Tech: Holograms and Blockchain: The future of coaching technologies may involve advanced AI systems with reasoning and planning capabilities, combined with holographic interfaces and sensor-rich environments to deliver highly personalized, interactive coaching experiences, with blockchain potentially playing a role in secure data management.


  4. Humans and AI as Complementary Coaching Partners: Human coaches can leverage AI as a valuable tool, allowing them to focus on the relational and motivational aspects of coaching while AI handles tasks like information retrieval, progress tracking, and personalized content generation.


  5. Role of Childlike Wonder in Coaching: Childlike wonder plays a pivotal role in coaching by fostering an environment of openness and creativity for both coaches and clients. For coaches, it enhances user experience design by broadening perspectives, challenging biases, and inspiring innovative approaches that make coaching sessions more engaging and enjoyable. For clients, this sense of wonder encourages a non-dogmatic approach to learning, promotes mindfulness regarding personal blind spots, and increases receptivity to new ideas and feedback.

 

⭐ What’s Vince’s Magic?

Ability and willingness to go deep - deeply engaging with his relationships, problems, and tasks, rather than staying at a surface level.

 

    • Graßmann, C., & Schermuly, C.C. (2020). Coaching With Artificial Intelligence: Concepts and Capabilities. Human Resource Development Review, 20, 106 - 126.; 

    • Terblanche, N.H., Molyn, J., de Haan, E., & Nilsson, V. (2022). Comparing artificial intelligence and human coaching goal attainment efficacy. PLoS ONE, 17.

  • Vince Han is a former music major who has pivoted his career to become a successful entrepreneur and the founder of the mobile coaching platform, Mobile Coach. With a background in building multiple technology companies, Vince's true passion lies in understanding people, their goals, and the challenges they want to overcome. He is deeply invested in the power of technology to democratize knowledge and make coaching and personal development more accessible and effective. With a unique blend of analytical thinking and empathy, Vince is at the forefront of exploring how AI-powered coaching can enhance the human experience and help individuals unlock their full potential.

  • Jiani (00:00)

    Welcome Vince to MAGICademy podcast. Great to have you.

    Vince Han (00:05)

    It's great to be here. Thank you so much for having me. I have really been looking forward to this.

    Jiani (00:09)

    Wonderful, wonderful. So Vince, some people may still be so interested about you and your background. If you were to introduce yourself in like 30 seconds in an interesting and unique way, how would you introduce yourself?

    Vince Han (00:25)

    Well, you did, thank you. You did mention that I was a musician. Yes, I majored in the trombone. A lot of people have not met trombone performance majors, but I wanted to be a symphonic trombonist for my career way back when. And then maybe some other quick things to introduce me. I love running. I'm an ultra runner, so I've run 100 mile races. I love my family. I love logic and thinking and technology, but I also love feelings and I love faith.

    those things too. And yeah, so that's a little bit about myself.

    Jiani (00:55)

    That's kind of all everything that we need in order to be faithful and start something that help people. I think that's all it takes and if not more wonderful. So why mobile coach? Like what made you pivot from this music space into founding a coach that helps human beings?

    Vince Han (01:20)

    Yeah, so when I pivoted from music into entrepreneurship, I actually had started a few other technology companies and developed some skills around how to build software, how to attract investors and sort of the functions of a startup. But my real passion in life is when I get to know people, I get really invested in their progress and the goals that they have and the challenges that they want to overcome in their lives.

    And that's true of myself too. I'm very interested and invested in change and in behavior change for the good. And technology can do so much to democratize all the knowledge that we've built as humankind in helping people progress, making it accessible, making it scalable, making it more effective. And so, yeah, that's a little bit of the...

    the thinking behind starting a company like Mobile Coach.

    Jiani (02:20)

    That's great. It's like leveraging technology's power, not for its own sake, but for human and human development sake. This is so beautiful. I'm curious, since we're building this like mobile platform technology, from a human perspective, what do you think is a good coach or what do you think is an effective coach that really helped to develop other humans?

    Vince Han (02:45)

    Well, I'm going to try to be brief because we could take a long time answering that question. But maybe one insight I could offer in that I think one way to view an effective coach is whether the coach E is listening. So, you know, I think that meeting people where they are intellectually, emotionally is so important.

    because people have to make their own choices around how they think, what they do, the actions that they have in order to improve and respond to a coach. And so I think effective coaching is what that relationship doing is sticking. How intently...

    is someone looking forward to and really invested in what the coach is saying and advising. I think that's one way to answer that question.

    Jiani (03:42)

    And then so it's kind of coming from the coachee's perspective so it's like the coachee needs to be very coachable, willing to listen. And so...

    So what about from the coach, like the coach perspective, assuming that we get a fantastic coach who listens every word that we say and have this strong desire to grow and to overcome themselves. What would be a great coach look like if we were to kind of maximize the potential of the coach?

    Vince Han (04:16)

    Yeah, I think a great coach understands the context between long -term success and short -term incremental steps and can balance that in a coaching session or in just even in a check -in where the coach can know, okay, I'm coaching Vince towards a certain goal and in the next...

    what's important for Vince to be thinking about and doing in the next 30 minutes, in the next 24 hours, in the next two weeks, in the next six months. And sort of orchestrating, and that can be very dynamic too. And so I think the coach has to be very keenly aware of all the influences and all the parameters that impact Vince's performance and Vince's state to almost like, if we go back to a music analogy, almost like being a conductor.

    Jiani (04:53)

    Hmm.

    Vince Han (05:09)

    Do you know what I can, you know, as like a conductor of an orchestra where, yeah, you're conducting and you're, at some times you have to be quiet and maybe the trumpets are being too loud or maybe you need more from the viola section. Maybe there's a pause, you're listening to the audience at the same, there's a lot going on. You're having to be very perceptive about all the dynamics of the moment. And yeah, I think that makes, I think that's a really important skill for it.

    Jiani (05:34)

    That's great. Yeah. So it's kind of like meeting, as you mentioned, like meeting where they are and know where they're moving into and then keeping sharp eye and senses towards where, where it needs to be tuned and what are some specific plans going from point A to point B and map it out and then constantly motivate the person to kind of go providing that the coach is very receptive and coachable. Very beautiful.

    I like your music analogy, like the conductor. What are some kind of, maybe just pick like one or two case studies from a mobile coach that you've seen that you think really, I would like to use the word transformed, but the word is a little bit overused. So maybe some cases where you really see a big,

    performance improvement or a big culture shift within the organization or on that particular people or group of people.

    Vince Han (06:36)

    Yeah, so gosh, we have over 10 ,000 mobile coach chatbots in our platform that hundreds of companies have been putting together. Organizations doesn't have to be a company. Anyone that has a vision for a mobile coaching chatbot to help a certain end user population. So it's hard to nail it down to two, but I appreciate the questions. I'll try.

    I think I'll give one corporate example, one non -corporate example. So one corporate example would be creating a mobile coach to support someone on a learning journey. So let's say that I'm a new manager at a certain company and they have some curriculum about values and core competency skills that they want every manager to have. It's not like I can go to a workshop and learn a certain skill.

    and let's say, you know, like, let's say I go to a workshop and I learn everything about empathy. That doesn't mean that all of a sudden I have great empathy, you know, that's going to, that learning journey will require me to practice and to get feedback and to be thinking about it. And so then how do you engage that person over time when they leave the workshop and they're back in the thick of their day -to -day work? And so that's where I think a mobile coach chatbot that's supporting that learning journey.

    Jiani (07:40)

    I know something about them

    Vince Han (07:57)

    that's maybe sitting on Microsoft Teams, that acts like a colleague where I'm in constant communication with. I think that's a really nice use case to sort of illustrate the type of impact that a mobile coach can have on an organization, on that organization's culture. And then the non -corporate example would be personal well -being. And so there are mobile coaches that help people that are trying to sleep better or move more or eat healthier or maybe lose weight if that's a goal that they have.

    You know, those types of use cases to me are quite personally transformational and part of my personal passion too. So I love seeing those types of use cases when they're very effective.

    Jiani (08:42)

    That's beautiful. And when we are leveraging the AI into the coaching process, we were talking about that almost like five years ago. Back then, the system is very like in a controlled environment. So everything's very set and restricted. It's kind of like you have a

    inventory of QAs and then whatever people ask you, you give the answer. So it's quite planned and specifically executed. But with the AI now we kind of open it up to the large language model, the information that the model takes from the worldwide web. How do you, what is the current system? How do you integrate AI? Is this right now like a semi open system?

    just how is AI currently integrated into the system.

    Vince Han (09:37)

    Yeah, so our platform's an authoring platform for automated chatbot messaging. And so at its foundation, it's really a rules engine. And the purpose of the rules engine is for, if I can go back to the musical analogies, maybe for the composer. So the composer to put together, OK, here I want the strings to play here, and then I want the timpani to play, and then I want the trombones to enter. So.

    Jiani (09:54)

    Yes, yes, please.

    Vince Han (10:06)

    it's sort of the canvas for setting down the personality of the chatbot, the rules, the guardrails of the chatbot. There are some cases where you do want the chatbot to be very specific about what to say and when. And so as the human composer, knowing something about my audience, I'll have a really good sensibility about some of those things that I want to orchestrate. And then where does AI play? And there are times where...

    I'll want to very strategically, if you can think about like a jazz piece, so I was kind of making a symphonic example, but if you take now in the world of jazz, there are sets of rules, like when you go to a jazz combo and they're playing the melody, well after the melody, everyone takes turns to play a solo and those solos are improvised.

    And so that's a nice analogy too, because there are a set of rules that you want to have the chatbot play. Then there might be times where you want the chatbot to be more intelligent, to improvise a little bit. Improvise maybe is not the best word, but maybe to have... So where AI can be really, really effective in a coaching scenario is to be able to understand what the user's saying. So if I could say, hey, Jiani

    Jiani (11:00)

    Mm.

    adaptive.

    Hmm.

    Vince Han (11:28)

    You know, today, how's your Monday morning going? Before AI, that was a very difficult question to be able to answer using just a rules -based scenario. But now with AI, I can set the rule, not AI. I can set a rule to say, I want to ask Jiani how she's doing on Monday morning. So I can set that rule. But when you answer, it's going to be hard for me to predict. I don't know how your day is going. It could be going great. It could be going OK. It could be going terrible. And so we can use AI then to understand what you're saying.

    Jiani (11:38)

    Mm.

    Vince Han (11:57)

    and use a combination of rules and AI then to lead you to where, as a coach, where I want you to go.

    Jiani (12:03)

    I like that because like you said, if it's rule -based, it's really hard to kind of understand. So really we're seeing, even though AI is not human, but we do see it's helping us to be more empathetic, to be more able to understand where they are so we can meet everybody where they are. I really like that. And this question may be a little technical.

    And you can use like simple language to answer this question. So how is there an algorithm? How do you actually integrate AI? When and where do you integrate AI for the most effective outcome?

    Vince Han (12:47)

    Yeah, so let's take that example that I just mentioned about. On Monday morning, I want to ask Jiani how she's doing. So that's going to be a rule.

    Jiani (12:55)

    I'm doing pretty well doing research and doing some exercise and chatting with Vince. So I'm having a pretty good day.

    Vince Han (13:08)

    Great. All right, so what I'm going to do then in our system, so you asked how that works in our system, I'm going to capture a response and save it in our system. And then I'm going to create some rules to interpret what you're saying. And then in the back and forth interaction, you're not having to write a prompt. So when you go directly to an LLM, the user's writing some sort of

    or some sort of request. But in our system, we can create what we call invisible dynamic prompts. So we're guiding, we're telling, it's almost like we're whispering in the LLM's ear what to do next, so you don't have to do it. So that's a good description of how we, so it's not algorithmic, it's dynamic prompts. And so if somebody's in New York, or if someone's in Korea, or if someone's in Australia,

    If someone's a sales rep, if someone's an accountant, if someone's a researcher, we can tell AI all of that without the user having to tell AI. And that will make the AI response that much more personalized for that conversation.

    Jiani (14:18)

    Oh, so it's really the dynamic prompting is really, it's a very interesting concept. So basically you're, can you help me understand a little bit more? I'm still trying to like wrap my mind around what is dynamic prompting? Does that mean you put in different prompt and let AI to choose whichever prompt to use? How?

    Vince Han (14:37)

    Yeah.

    Yeah, let me try to come up with a better example for you. So let's say that I want a mobile coach to teach you in a micro learning example. Let's say that, hey, today I want my mobile coach to teach all its users about displaying empathy, for example. So then I'm going to tell AI, all right, here's my prompt. I want to create a two -minute...

    back and forth, sort of scenario -based experience with each user to teach them about empathy. Okay, so that's easy enough. You can do that with a regular prompt. But now, in a dynamic prompt, I can pass variables into the prompt. So I could say, this person is an accountant working for a large consulting firm. This person is a team manager at McDonald's.

    This person is Korean is their preferred language This person Spanish is their preferred language So all of this is being passed as a variable in the prompt the user doesn't have to do anything So that's what I mean by a dynamic prompt So I have a single prompt with variables that I'm filling with information I know about each user So now all of a sudden when the AI engine gets this prompt everyone will get a different response based on the parameters that were passed And so that could be that's the

    So it's a single prompt with different parameters, and that's driving highly personalized AI interactions.

    Jiani (16:19)

    Oh, I like that. So it's kind of like you're building mini data banks for that particular person, that particular avatar. And then, so based on that variables and the AI would steal the same prompt, but the AI will bring in all these data contexts and provide customized and personalized feedback on the go.

    Vince Han (16:40)

    That's a nice way to put it. Yeah, a mini -databank. I like that.

    Jiani (16:43)

    Cool. Cool. All right. Sounds good. Excellent. So then I'm curious. So you mentioned about the example of how the coach can potentially help people change behaviors, whether with xenonations or on their own terms forming better and healthier habits. Are there, when people are using those AI tools or the AI coach,

    Do they tend to perceive the AI coach as real human being or is there still a layer of like invisible wall of like potential mistrust or kind of hard to have like a hundred percent ability to trust the bots? Like what are some people's real world perceptions when they know that they're talking with a AI bot?

    Vince Han (17:36)

    Yeah, so I want to make a distinction. The words are really important. And I think when people are engaged with a mobile coach, they have accepted to be talking with a mobile coach. So that's different from going to like chat GPT and asking some random question where hallucination is possible.

    So I'm opting into a mobile coaching experience. And typically, that mobile coaching experience has a very narrow purpose. So it's, I'm part of this leadership plan at work, or I'm part of this weight loss program. And so it has a very specific focus. And I know that because I've opted in into it. The other really important distinction is that unlike most traditional chatbots, mobile coaches are proactive. So most people think about chatbots as

    going to some sort of destination website, and it's waiting for you to make a request or ask a question. And so the very nature of asking a question opens it up for potential hallucination, because it depends on how sophisticated of a question and how you ask the question. But in a mobile coach, oftentimes you're receiving a challenge or a reminder. So it's a very different user experience. And so within that umbrella of that context, people are fine. They really are.

    They know that it's a chatbot. They know that it's automated. And in many instances, they prefer this user experience. Because a lot of times in coaching contexts, we feel vulnerable. And so the anonymity and the safety of talking to a chatbot versus a human being has a lot of advantages. So let me just give you one quick example of that. Let's say that I have a mobile coach helping me be successful at work. And let's say I'm new to this job.

    Jiani (19:15)

    Mm -hmm.

    Vince Han (19:22)

    So let's say that you're my manager and I say, hey, Jiani, I'm confused about how to do X, Y, or Z. Can you help me do this? And I know you're really busy, but you're a great boss. And so you spend an hour with me and help me understand. And so you teach me how to do this task after an hour. And then you ask me, hey, Vince, do you get it? What am I going to say? I'm most likely going to say, yes, Jiani, thank you for the time. I totally get it. You're awesome.

    Jiani (19:48)

    I totally get it. Thank you.

    Vince Han (19:52)

    And then when you leave, I'm like, oh man, I am in trouble because I do not understand this at all. I feel very vulnerable. I'm not going to want to ask you again because then you might think less of me or I might think my job is at risk. So cases like that, I would prefer talking to a chatbot to say the chatbot, help me do this. I don't get it. And so there are many cases like that where because the purpose of the mobile coach is so specific, I have very rarely seen any

    any humans uncomfortable with interacting with that type of chat.

    Jiani (20:25)

    That's beautiful. That use case is spot on. Because I think a lot of times people are having this like fear and hesitance of interacting with another person due to various reasons and the bot gives them like a safety net, like a safety place where they can just...

    say and ask questions and practice without feeling the repercussions of whatever potential negative consequences. This is very impressive and critical. Very good. And then I'm curious, like in the process or in the dynamics of like coaching, and you mentioned a little bit about the coaching needs to be very receptive. What role do you think childlike wonder play? Like,

    Is this like childlike wonder curiously important or it really depends like based on your experiences.

    Vince Han (21:24)

    I love the term childlike wonder. That's great. I think that it applies to both the conductor or the composer of the chatbot, someone trying to design the user experience. I love this idea, Jiani of thinking about doing that with childlike wonder, I think would really help expand, as I'm designing a chatbot, would help me check my biases.

    It would help me, I think, make a more delightful user experience. And then from the coachee's perspective, the person receiving the message from the chatbot, I think, you know, very similar where having a childlike wonder means to not be dogmatic in my approach, to be mindful that everyone has blind spots. And we're making huge, sometimes very consequential decisions without checking our blind spots. And so...

    When I think about a child having that childlike wonder, they're just taking it all in with wide eyes. So I think that's a great way to think about going through life.

    Jiani (22:34)

    That's beautiful. That's kind of our role power. Everybody has, and we just need to like tap into it a little bit more. And do you think once we tap into that in terms of coaching, the speed to skill, like skill development can potentially be increased or it really depends on other major factors than this one?

    Vince Han (22:57)

    You mean like with the combination of childlike wonder and having a mobile coach? Yeah, well, I mean I'm I'm a very much a believer in what a chatbot can do to accelerate speed to skill development You know from multiple factors I think one is just I think speed to skill development relies so much on the person's decision to be committed to skill development

    Jiani (23:03)

    Mm -hmm.

    Vince Han (23:26)

    And in as much as we get busy and we put it off and then it's out of sight, out of mind, I think a mobile coach can do an incredible job of keeping it top of mind to hold people accountable. And if people have that childlike wonder about themselves, then they're going to pay attention to it.

    Jiani (23:39)

    Great.

    attention is big. Yeah. That's great. Now let's kind of put our mind into the future and practice our imagination muscle a little bit. And from your background, looking into the future.

    Well, how do you see the world of coaching, technology assisted or AI augmented coaching would look like with further advanced technologies like virtual reality, neural links and much like brand machine interactive technologies and more web three, you know, blockchain, maybe blockchain is a little bit stretching, but like, how do you, how do you see?

    the future, what could be the future look like?

    Vince Han (24:32)

    Yeah, I think the future is very, I mean, I think it's very exciting and I think we're underestimating how well technology can coach us. And so some key components, I think, of the future will be first, AI's fundamental ability to reason and to plan. These are things that doesn't do very well today that I think will be transformative in coming years. And I think that's really important because,

    Right now, AI is much more of a reactive technology, like it's reacting to a question or to what we're saying. And we need AI to be able to reason and plan and anticipate. And when it does, boy, it adds a huge new variable to the future. Now, combine that with more physical devices like cameras and speakers and projectors. So if I have cameras, speakers, and objectors, and we're already starting to see it in glasses, but...

    If I have cameras, speakers, and projectors, what I could do is, and I could have an AI engine that can reason and plan, now I can have a hologram, Jiani, a hologram standing next to me, watching everything I'm doing, having sensory ability, maybe not feelings yet, but have the ability to see, to hear, maybe even to smell, and then to be able to project something. So,

    Jiani (25:30)

    Hmm.

    Vince Han (25:59)

    Imagine having a hologram coach that can actually show me how to do something or to demonstrate how to do something in the context of my workplace or my home or whatever I'm trying to be coached at. Now that might be creepy to some people, but that technology's coming and if you choose to use it and if you choose to harness it, talk about speed to development will be so fast compared to what's available today.

    Jiani (26:04)

    Mmm.

    Yeah.

    This is crazy stuff, but it's not because you see that in movies already. So yeah, if you were able to have like a 24 seven coach that cares all about you, collect all the mini data, build a mini data bank about you and wanting you to evolve to your highest potential, why not? Provide that your data is...

    secure, maybe that's where Web3 or blockchain can happen is to help you to protect your data against other data theft out there. This is fantastic. And are there any particular challenges that we need to watch out for or potential risks that you can foresee?

    Vince Han (27:13)

    Well, certainly bring one up where privacy, rights to privacy, who controls the data. I think that is a really big question. And I also think it's a very sophisticated question because the technology is moving faster than I think most people can understand it. Maybe in some cases, moving faster than the people who create it can understand it, let alone entities who might want to regulate it or to protect citizens.

    And then of course as citizens, do we understand enough about this technology to understand what permissions to give it? I think this is a big risk with big implications. And I think we need to be doing a lot more investment in educating and collaborating and being very open and transparent with some of the ramifications that this technology can do. And I also think we have to be careful about

    who, to make sure that this technology is available to everybody and not in, have the power not in the hands of just a few companies or a few people. So, because it's such powerful technology that, that's I think something else we have to, as humankind, have to be very, very careful.

    Jiani (28:29)

    Yeah, that's definitely true. And also like the, I think most people know that, but we haven't yet found a solution is the biases that's embedded in the database that we use. That's a lack of representations of diverse populations, diverse views. But I think if we were able to build those mini databases for each person, then that could potentially be a solution.

    to add more diversity into the models. Nice.

    Vince Han (29:02)

    Yeah, I think that's a really, I think it's a very interesting problem and challenge because to me, it's impossible to have an AI engine that's not biased. And so that shouldn't be the goal because there's not a non -biased human being. But bias is something we all have and some...

    I think it has a little bit of a negative connotation because it can be abused, but we need biases to survive, actually, to live. That's how humans function, to survive each day. And so if a chat bot says one thing that pleases one person, it's going to displease someone else. And if you change it to please someone else, it's going to displease the first person because it's all based on our personal context. And we all have...

    you know, different biases that, you know, are naturally going to compete with one another. And so it's a broader philosophical discussion about, you know, to me the solution is mimicking humankind where we value diversity in different types of humans. Like I wouldn't want to have you change who you are. I want you to bring what you have to our collaboration and between the two of us because we're different in many ways.

    we're going to come up with a wonderful solution. So I think it's a little bit wrong to try to force a computer to be one thing for everybody. I think the answer is going to be have a population of AI, each with their own context, with their own biases. And then in a collaborative way, we can get to some nice applications for the world.

    Jiani (30:55)

    Oh, I like that. So we can create different specifically biased AI so we can form them together and they can collaborate together. Oh, this is getting interesting. Well, then I have to ask this question because we're using this analogy like we're using the analogy to human beings and we know that AI is not human beings and they're just thinking models.

    Will and back to this coach thing. So will, will human coach be what's the, how would human coach, what role does human coach play as AI continue to evolve? Will they be replayed somehow? Will they be elevated so they can do different things to better help AI?

    to help them, to help others. Like how, where's, where are we going?

    Vince Han (31:51)

    Yeah, if I'm a human coach and I care first and foremost about the people I'm coaching, you know, of course I understand that human coaches need to make a living and of course they need to be compensated for their time, of course. But if I'm a really effective coach, I worry less about that because if I'm an effective coach, then that's going to take care of itself. The people I'm coaching are going be happy with me, they're going to see progress, and they're going to feel great about compensating me for my skills and my commitment.

    So with that context, as a human coach, I think it's my responsibility to understand this technology to benefit the people I'm coaching as much as possible. And I don't know the answer because every coaching situation is different. But I do know that this technology has advanced far enough where in almost every context that I can think of, an AI can play a role today in helping a coachee be successful.

    And so as the human coach, I'm going to use that as a tool in my toolbox to help my person. And if AI progresses to the point where it's doing 90 % of the things that I'm accustomed to doing, that's great. I can fine tune it. I can direct it. As long as my coach is making the progress that they need to be making, I'm going to be happy. And if that AI coach takes away 90 % of my bandwidth, well, all of a sudden, I can coach more people.

    And so I think that is the primary function of a human coach will be looking at technology as a tool in their toolbox to help their people progress and meet their goals.

    Jiani (33:19)

    Hmm.

    That's great and help more people at the same time because it's always hard for you know it's already hard to get everybody to pair with a coach because coaches limited resources as well so democratize.

    Vince Han (33:36)

    Yeah.

    Yeah, such an important part of human motivation is our connection with other human beings. So if I socialize my goal with my colleague, with my friend, with my partner at home, with my children, then that becomes a really important part of the fabric of what motivates me to change and to overcome and to battle through the throes of life.

    And so humans will always play a very important role in having people be successful because we're bound to one another. So yeah, there's a lot being talked about, the fear of AI replacing jobs. And there's truth to the fact that AI will be able to do tasks faster and cheaper and just as well as humans. And that's just going to be a fact of life. So we need to focus on what we can contribute to each other as humans.

    as we go through this transition in the workplace and with the advent of AI. It might be a little bumpy, but if we're all focused on our personal contributions, then we'll find us a great place where we can thrive as human beings and as people in the workforce.

    Jiani (35:02)

    That's beautiful. And as we move into the magic piece of this conversation, I wanted to give a brief recap for our audience. So we've talked about Vin's background and how Vin's pivoted from a music major to all the way founding multiple companies and now mobile coach to help people augment and enhance and change and evolve their behaviors so they can become better human beings to work closer to their potentials. And we also talked about some major use cases. We talked about also what

    is good coaching, what are some requirements for effective coaching to take place. We explored some ideas around what our future will look like with all the advanced technologies like augmented technology, virtual reality, web 3, and how coaching can look super different and even.

    more human as we move into the future. We also talk about some potential risks and challenges that we need to be watch out for. And ultimately, we wanted to see AI as just one of those other technologies. And we need to be the masters of all the tools and to master those technologies to advance human and human development in the end. So that's beautiful.

    And Vince, so as we move into the magic part of this conversation, you know, my first question is, so what did Vince enjoy doing when you were 11 years old, that time disappeared?

    Vince Han (36:31)

    Well, at that time, I loved my imagination. I loved to daydream, and I loved to just let my mind go to where, you know, to envision things. I really loved just being in my own thoughts. So that's one big memory I have from that age.

    Jiani (36:53)

    I resonate with you on that. I feel like if we are daydreaming, it feels like there's no limit. Everything is achievable and you get this happiness of achieving that and it gives you confidence and gives you motivation. I think that's big and that's great. And were there any particular...

    I know everybody goes through a lot of challenges and nowadays like everybody going through more challenges every day. What was that like one major challenge that helped shape who Vince is?

    Vince Han (37:32)

    Well, I have started seven companies in my career as an entrepreneur. And starting companies is incredibly challenging. It's challenging financially, emotionally, physically. And I think when you're going through a really difficult challenge by building a company, you really, as an entrepreneur, can

    go to a level where you're really questioning your self -worth, can I do this? Because you're really creating something from nothing. And I think all of those experiences and difficult times have really helped me get perspective. It's helped me get tougher. It's helped me learn. It's helped me to have childlike wonder. I think it's helped me have...

    Jiani (38:22)

    Hehehehe

    Vince Han (38:25)

    broad perspective on what's important in life. It also helps me to learn that if you persevere and you keep an open mind and you're willing to work hard, that you can navigate yourself out of almost any seemingly impossible situation. And I think that's really been a big blessing in my life to know and learn that.

    Jiani (38:50)

    That's beautiful. And I think that kind of spirit also are reflected by your marathon experiences. Because I know you're like an avid roller. And that's, that's... Do you see that's a kind of a correlation? Like, as you run, it's kind of like you run through life's challenges and...

    Vince Han (39:15)

    100 % yeah, so I have run long distances many 50 mile races and a couple 100 mile races and it's a great metaphor to life and to starting companies where you have your highs and your lows and and You need to persevere and then you don't think you can go a step further and then all of a sudden you're moving again And so yeah, it's a great great analogy and metaphor for for life and for startups

    Jiani (39:43)

    Life is a sport and you are the athletes. You just need to play your game. Beautiful. So what do you think is your magic then?

    Vince Han (39:45)

    Yeah.

    Exactly.

    Yeah, so I think, I love this question. I think my magic power is the ability to have the courage to go deep. So much of life, I think, we're tempted to just stay at the surface level. And I am not afraid, and in fact, I enjoy going deep, going deep with my relationships with people in my life. Being able to, you know, going deep in tackling a problem.

    Going deep and understanding a topic going deep and getting a job done really well not just staying at the surface level and I think my willingness to do that and my in fact my eagerness to do that I think is a magic power and you know like all Magic powers there's really great benefits, and there's also downsides, too right so we have pros and there are consequences That's a better word than a downside there are consequences, so But

    Jiani (40:47)

    Come on.

    Vince Han (40:50)

    It's one that I appreciate and I'm glad that I've learned it.

    Jiani (40:53)

    Hmm. And I'm very grateful that I receive your periodical updates about your life. And I see that human connections that's so not as common nowadays. And I really appreciate hearing all the updates from you. So please keep it, keep them coming. I feel, I feel great.

    Vince Han (41:15)

    Well, that's kind of you. And it's been wonderful and inspiring for me to see you with tenacity, you know, really make a huge contribution in your world and what you're doing and putting this podcast together to extend the reach and your influence to many other people. It's been inspiring to see you and witness you do that too.

    Jiani (41:37)

    Thank you. I think it's a work in progress and it's a journey. I really enjoy the journey every like talking with you and just feels like yeah, that's why I'm here. That's why I come to this planet and I'm just doing what I need to do and feeling fulfilled as I go about each day. So.

    Vince Han (42:02)

    Keep doing it.

    Jiani (42:03)

    Great. And thank you, Vince, for coming to our podcast and for our audience. If you want to get a hold of him, check in the show description below. There's a link, I'll give you some links to Vince LinkedIn and the mobile coach and other places that you can potentially find him.

    So thank you so much Vince for sharing your time with us today and we look forward to more exciting developments in your entrepreneurial journey and helping people to unlock their potentials through coaching.

    Vince Han (42:41)

    Thank you so much for having me. It was a lot of fun. Thank you.

    Jiani (42:45)

    Yes, that's a lot of fun. Thank you very much, Vince.

 

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