The Four-Core Drivers for Wellbeing Leadership | Julian Lorenzo Farrapeira
Wellbeing leadership isn't a trade-off with performance—it's the path to sustainable results. This framework offers leaders four strategic pillars to drive engagement, reduce turnover, and unlock the $1 trillion in value lost annually to burnout and disengagement.
Twelve years ago, Julian was an intern learning to build one of the first wellbeing models in the world. The project won awards across Europe. Then burnout struck. That crisis crystallized his mission: leaders need a systematic way to drive business results without destroying themselves or their teams.
The global economy loses over $1 trillion annually to depression and anxiety. As Julian puts it: "Wellbeing plus leadership equals business results."
The Four-Core Driver Framework
Effective wellbeing leadership isn't about meditation apps or wellness perks. It's a strategic framework built on four interconnected pillars.
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MAGICommons Podcast (00:00)
30 years ago, the of the companies, 85 % was tangible assets. Now 90 % of the value of the companies isn't tangible. What does it mean? We are talking about, yeah, for sure, the brand, processes, but mainly people and leaders. It's the intellectual capital they have inside the organization. That's what we see in all the research, all the new generations coming, and we should have this as a core strategy, having this flourishing in the people.
and also having this business result, you then create something that is meaningful.
Jiani (00:33)
Today with us is Julian. He is the founder of Wellbeing Leadership and has been helping thousands of leaders across the world to learn the strategies of Wellbeing Leadership and how Wellbeing Leadership really relates to a sustainable result
How can we as leaders and startup founders and entrepreneurs really integrate and build this sense of well-being from the very beginning or at whatever
Julian Lorenzo Farrapeira (01:03)
a pleasure to be here.
Jiani (01:04)
So
B BB, in front of your lens of spaceship, an out walks a friendly alien. If you were to use one word, one sound, or one movement to invite the alien to play, what would that be?
Julian Lorenzo Farrapeira (01:23)
I think one of the best movements or things we can do to connect with other human beings is the smile. So I think the smile would be my election for this question, beautiful question. yes, think a smile is one thing that we connect with.
everybody, even it's a friendly alien, for sure we'll do that to try to connect and understand different connections and human nature of the things.
Jiani (01:45)
Hahaha
Beautiful. So why well-being leadership? What is the personal stories behind this?
Julian Lorenzo Farrapeira (02:00)
Jenny, this is a great question. Maybe not a short answer. But I think it started, was, I would say like more than 12 years ago. I was working with one of my mentors. I was an intern at that time. He was the director developing one of the first well-being models in the world. He was in Spain at that time. We received some awards from the Great Place to Work list in Europe.
Jiani (02:04)
Hahaha
Julian Lorenzo Farrapeira (02:25)
from the European Agency for Health and Safety. And it was a great successful case. So I learned a lot how to apply well-being and leadership that time. Then I worked for different, you know, big companies, also American companies as head of HR. And all the time I was applying, how well-being can increase, you know, the results, reduce turnover, increase engagement.
And then finally, I experienced like a burnout myself. And that for me was, and I see a lot of leaders and people suffering that in companies. That was like a moment that I decided that I have a mission that I should teach leaders how to avoid these kinds of things and how to increase their wellbeing also for having great business results.
I'm for sure for having a better life. That's very, very important, that mission for me. And that's why this Wellbeing Leadership concept.
Jiani (03:22)
Beautiful and whenever we talk about well-being it's usually an association with sustainability a reduction of burnout because burnout is so real and with the current world pushing us forward and We always feel like the easiest solution is to work harder it to try harder to do more is to just
As if burnout is worthy to be celebrated. It's like, ⁓ I get a burnout. means I look so hot. However, it does create some sort of damages throughout. in terms of the framework of the well-being leadership, can you share with us what is the core framework of this well-being leadership? What exactly that is?
Julian Lorenzo Farrapeira (04:09)
That's a great question because if we see numbers, for example, the economy lost more than $1 trillion per year only due to depression and anxiety around the world. We are talking about huge numbers of business results. It's great numbers. So the well-being leadership model, what we do is we develop leaders in four areas mainly.
The first is self-awareness. So we teach how to increase your self-awareness and also know your strengths, how to put your strengths to impact the organization. I remember some months ago, I interviewed Richard Bojatsis that he wrote some books with Daniel Goleman. He's very, very interesting. He has a great book, new book, The Science of Change. He researched more than 50 years on that.
an expert in that. And he says that self-awareness is one of the skills that correlates more with successful leaders. So we need to start by knowing ourselves as leaders. The second part is how to embrace emotional intelligence. We need to increase our emotional intelligence as a leader to be successful at work. For example, we know Daniel Goleman.
He says that 66 % of success at work depends on emotional intelligence, 33 % on technical skills. But if you are a leader, this is more than 85%. This is a huge number. So emotional intelligence is critical to lead better. And we teach that also how to give better recognition to the team members, how to give better feedback, also to develop the talent. The third part is more how
Can we achieve sustainable results? And we teach how to be a better leader coach. What does it mean? You need to ask great questions. You need to listen powerfully because sometimes leader, things that communicate is only asked by asking that you need to only speaking, you need to ask. So you need to ask great questions and listen. And that's very important. And also align expectations and goals. This is another problem we see.
with burnout, for example. If you don't align expectations with the people you lead, they can work, you know, never ends, you know. So you need to align what I expect from you. And then it's easier to know what I expect from you as a leader and what I need to deliver. And the last part is the different of our framework from others is how to, you know,
the wellbeing from a strategic way. So that's...
That's very important how you create psychological safety environments and how you can be the example of well-being to your team.
Jiani (06:58)
I'm trying to remember the the quadrant that you've mentioned. So the first part is the self-awareness. We need to be aware of who we are, our strengths, weaknesses, what triggers us and basically what we are. As of now, we always team. The second one is emotional intelligence, the ability to read the room.
Julian Lorenzo Farrapeira (07:13)
Yeah.
Jiani (07:19)
the emotions of the other person and also ourselves at different situations so we can respond or then react. The third one is alignment between to align the expectations between the leaders and the teammates making it happen. The fourth one is, I forgot already.
Julian Lorenzo Farrapeira (07:44)
Yeah, increase the value of their well-being strategically.
Jiani (07:47)
So it's focusing on consciously and intentionally developing well-being for everybody that's working together. Am I missing anything?
It's not too difficult to remember. So for our audience, if you are trying to visualize the framework, you can draw a pie or a circle, and then you can divide it into four quadrants. And the upper left would be self-awareness. The upper right quadrant would be the emotional awareness. And then the lower one is more kind of on the implementation. So the lower left would be.
Aligning alignment with everybody and then the lower right would be the wellness and well-being intentional. Well being a woman
Can you share with us some stories for leaders who really successfully implemented well-being leadership in their cohort or in the communities or the companies that they lead? Yeah, we'll be curious to hear your creative stories.
Julian Lorenzo Farrapeira (08:47)
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. For example, I think one month ago we did a leadership workshop with a leadership team and the chief product officer, she was the vice president of Google for a long time, more than 10 years. So she was a very high level leader. And it was great during the time we shared, she was talking about
She has a huge team, no? And she said that, for example, when somebody in her team, in a huge team, do something great, even that it's far away in the organization from her, she writes like a message on Slack saying, thank you for doing that. I recognize your work for doing that. And then she create like a lot of engagement for these people, you know?
So this is one thing we can do as a leader, that we need to recognize the people who is doing great, that this is very, very important to create this environment. And then we have, I work with other great leaders. One example, she worked with me in one company, I worked more than four years, it is the most valuable company in Latam and as a company. She started like 20 years ago as a junior analyst.
And now she's a senior vice president. And, you know, she grew a lot in this time. And why? Because she's able to, you know, to see, to understand her strengths, I put them to work, you know? So she's brilliant, for example, developing leaders, she's brilliant, connecting the product with the business. And she's doing great because sometimes leaders think that to be an extraordinary leader,
You don't, you need to have zero weaknesses, but it's not starting out leaders. They have great strengths. You know, we do that in the leadership worship. I also always ask, even that they are directors, vice presidents. Why are you a leader, a vice president in this NASA company? Because of your strengths or your weaknesses? Everybody says, I'm here because of my strengths.
And why we focus all the time in what is not working, you know, for sure. If you work with, for example, you are the head of data analytics, for sure you need to have analytic skills for that role. You need to work on that. You need to develop that skill, but it's not critical for your role. You should focus on why, what you are doing great and what brought you here, you know? So that's, that's very, very important. It's another example.
that you can grow a lot in your organization by focusing on your strengths. And this is normally difficult for leaders to understand because we are used to focus only in what is not working. So that's, you know, something that we need to change inside of current organizations.
Jiani (11:32)
Yeah, I think it all comes back to part of the human nature. It's like when we view ourselves with self-awareness part, maybe there's some biology or research kind of backing this up. It's at least coming from my personal experience. It's easier for us to catch up what's not working and as if it's like the most shiny.
Information that my brand is tense gravitate. this is not working. That is not working in To be able to focus on what is working because my strength is the
It really takes a conscious unintentional Instruction and it's like lip inside of my mind's eye as I'm seeing things
And I think if we were able to see from a more positive light, it does really, just by shifting the perspective, I do feel lighter, happier and more joyful because rather than a glass half empty, I'm seeing, ⁓ I still have half a glass of water, which I can drink. ⁓ look, that's orange juice too. So it's a lot of, this is the power coming from that positive.
focus and I, you're the expert, I'm going to ask you more questions. So, so in any organizational kind of environment, whether it's startup or, or a corporation, are there, what are some basic strategies that leaders can potentially influence in their environment, the culture to
really start to foster a environment that's pro and support for the well-being approach to see the politics, to see the staff, to align and to...
to make it more intentional. Like what is, how can leaders do that?
Julian Lorenzo Farrapeira (13:39)
Yeah, is something that is a great question because leaders, even if they are in a very high level of directors, vice presidents, they ask, I want to know more, how can increase the well-being? Because I don't know how to do that. Because all the time we have this devil inside ourselves, or his performance.
Jiani (14:02)
Yeah.
Julian Lorenzo Farrapeira (14:04)
or his well-being and they are fighting against each other, you know? But no, you can achieve a lot of performance by having greater levels of well-being, you know? So that is the first thing. We need to change the mindset that is not one or the other. They can go together. So this is one thing because sometimes the leaders have this limited belief that you can do both. So that's the first thing.
The second thing is how to teach them to ask better questions. And this, for example, this question for me, this question for me was fantastic. 12 years ago, I interviewed with David Caruso. He's the father of the concept of emotional intelligence with Meyer and Salovey from the University of Yale. I interviewed him for HR directors magazine. And...
I asked him, you know, what is the most important when we think about leadership, you know? And he told me the most important is understand the emotions of the people. And this is extremely powerful because he always said, you need to ask a development question by asking, how do you feel? And this question looks like, okay, but you need to ask and listen.
Jiani (15:04)
you
Julian Lorenzo Farrapeira (15:18)
the other side. Because sometimes leaders don't ask people, how do you feel? Do you feel anxious? Do you feel nervous? Are you overwhelmed? Are you happy with your job? And we developed thousands of leaders in big programs more than one time. For example, in the last big leadership program, we have one leader that he said,
I had somebody that he was a top performer in the last three years, you know, all the time, super performing, you know, everything great. And suddenly, you know, half a year, like the performance go down, down, down, down. And he said, if this guy don't change the performance, I need to fire him. You know, somebody he was doing great in the last three years. He did the program and then he asked the guy, how do you feel? And he listened. The employee, he had.
personal problems, you know, he had some issues at home and he wasn't, you know, he wasn't able
share and express because the leader didn't ask that before. He hadn't created that space of psychological safety to understand what happened with you. You're a great performance. You're a great guy. And then he could help him on that issue and then he came back again to perform.
on his level, you know? So if you don't know how to ask this question, maybe you need to fire somebody, you know, because you are not doing your role as a leader properly, you know? So that is very, very important to ask these kind of questions to help, you know, understand how the other side is feeling and how to manage because then it's easier to put
everybody working in their strengths, then it's easier to align expectations. if somebody is... Another quick question. From zero to ten, how is your energy? Zero is no energy, ten is high energy levels. If somebody tells you, I'm in a two in the last one year, I am exhausted, this person is really close to burnout. And then burnout...
It's not going to be a short period of time. It's going to be a long period of time. So I would say that teaching leaders to listen to their employees, to ask their questions is something critical if we want to create that culture of increasing well-being through leadership. That is very important. And also for sure, create an environment of psychological safety.
where everybody can feel safe to share, take risks, sometimes fail. And that's very, very, important as well.
Jiani (17:57)
you
Yeah, I would like to build upon what you just said about asking for emotions. I feel like the current society, especially in a professional space, they all see emotion as this unprofessional, too human...
aspects of things that we carry with us as talent or even leaders within themselves, they see emotions as less than the actual results or output and they see emotions as like these fractures like, emotions block, block, no emotions, this person displays emotions, bad, bad, so
How do we open up at least the opportunities for us to, before we ask these questions, for us to kind of perceive the role that emotions play in a professional space? How can we welcome people to see emotions as a critical factor, as you mentioned, in the professional space?
haha
Julian Lorenzo Farrapeira (19:11)
That's a great question, Gianni. think the first thing when you want to convince a leader that is, if we talk about this, maybe he or she is thinking, I don't think so. We need only results. Results doesn't matter than the emotions. We need to talk about data. research. So I talked before about Goleman's research.
85 % of success at work depends on emotional intelligence when you are a leader. If you don't have emotional intelligence, you are not going to do well. That's a fact if we see the numbers. Another data, Oxford, they did a research last year. They take the 100 best companies in well-being and they compare
the stock market with NASDAQ and also with the 4,500. And the Wellbeing 100, the stock market was higher. So, you know, we are not talking about well-being because it's beautiful or it's good that it is as well. It's because it's very for business results. That's why I like to say that well-being plus leadership is equal to business results.
because we know that if we see data. And that's very important when somebody thinks that this is not important. And I will encourage the leaders or the people who want to lead, that is, listen us, is to start by putting in practice. Because for me, I do that all the time with leaders. And when you see how they shift,
You know, it's fantastic. example, we were now last year, sorry, last month we were developing like a leadership team and it's really curious because on Mondays I go to work in the same place that they work. So I am there. I listen to them. And we have one of the managers and the partners of the company. He completely, I said, he completely changed, you know.
Some months ago, he go to the one-on-one with the employee, with a team member all the time, furious like, okay, you know, like no smile all the time, like, you know. And then after the workshops, he realized, okay, I don't need to be like this. I can ask better questions. I need to set my expectations. And if somebody don't,
go to what you're expecting, then you have another conversation. But this is business, you know? But you can do that in a light way, understanding the other side. Because if not, a lot of leaders are suffering because they think they need to be tough all the time, they need to be serious all the time, and they need, you know? And that's why a lot of young people don't want to be a leader right
Because they see leadership as something they don't want that.
But we need to change the way we show leadership. What worked like 10 years ago, 20 years ago, is not working anymore. We have new generations, we have new people on the market, and we need to understand that. And that is very, very, very important. And if you don't try and you go the other way, you will see the results. So it's easier. If you don't believe in data, try it by yourself.
and then you will see what happened.
Jiani (22:32)
The evidence for a talk. That's great. That's good. And then so, are there any early warning signs? If we were to say, we see that the well-being is being compromised. How can we pre-diagnose?
Julian Lorenzo Farrapeira (22:34)
Yeah.
That's a great question, Gianni. think it depends a lot if we are working, for example, in a big corporation or for something in a startup. So a lot of our clients, are like big corporations as that companies. And for sure, they have a lot of data, you know. They have metrics from turnover. They have metrics of engagement. They have leadership MPS. They have employee MPS. So you have a lot of
matrix. So it's really easy to understand when some team, some leader is not doing great and something is happening, you know, with that team. You know, I was leader of big, big structures when I was a leader internally in a company, know, structures of more than 600, 700 people. It's really easy to see when somebody is not doing well in terms of leadership because the numbers, you know,
The turnover is high, the engagement is low of the team. And then you see that this a lot of time is a problem of skills, leadership skills on that leader. And then when you go for something, if you are a leader of a startup and you don't have this data, what you can use is what we said. Leaders, leading is knowing how to conversate. So you need to lead, how to listen.
how to ask the great questions. So you need to, you know, how do you feel from zero to 10? How is your wellbeing? Zero, super low, 10, super high in the last month, two months, six months, one year. Try to understand, need to try to understand because before burnout is when you are exhausted. So you need to identify when somebody is exhausted.
The exhausted means that he or she is extremely tired. And you have some signs that sometimes you are not sleeping well, when you sit down to work in the proper space, you don't feel good. In my experience, I love surfing. I live in front of the sea and I love surfing. And when I saw the waves from my home,
Jiani (24:46)
I see that on your wall.
Julian Lorenzo Farrapeira (24:54)
And I say, I don't want to surf. say, something is happening here. So it's some signs that you can identify or with somebody, for example, another metric that maybe you don't need like the proper metric is absentings. When somebody feel ill, it's not coming to work. This week, two days is not working because he or she is not feeling good.
Jiani (24:58)
Hahaha
Julian Lorenzo Farrapeira (25:18)
And know, again and again and again, this is what happens when somebody is exhausted, you know? So you can start to see some signs, some red flags, and you need to be really aware because the next step, burnout, that for sure it's very difficult and then you need another kind of help that is more psychological in some way, sometimes psychiatric as well.
and the person is not coming back as before. So he she is going to need some time to recover and to come back. That's why it's so important that we develop leaders to help people not getting there. Because if not, people are not going to feel good.
and the business results are not going to. We have a lot of clients that they come asking us, we have a huge problem with absentees. have, you know, we're, you know, because some people is not going to work because they don't feel good. They are losing money in the company. You know, if people get out of the company, you know, this is turnover. Turnover is a huge cause for the company.
is more or less more than 30 % of the annual salary. So it's a lot of money when people leave the company. So we
to understand these signs. It can be data or it can be talking and standing the other side. But both are really, really powerful.
Jiani (26:52)
I'm really grateful that we are talking about well-being in the context of business. Because a lot of times when we're thinking about well-being, it's like, ⁓ I'll sit here meditating or yoga or just sleep well, drink a lot of nutritious liquids so we can stay awake and...
So it's a bit like a more kind of a consumer kind of driven concept. And the way that you were talking about well-being, it is actually very human. And it's like, yes, if we were to come together as a team to work toward the same mission, serve a group of people together, we really need to be well-being. And the well-being coming from your
perspective is kind of like a state of being. It's a state of being where everybody is able to give all we can when needed to a particular purpose aligned with the goals to drive a particular result. the well-being is the ability to do that not just one day, not just two days, not just even a week.
years and years and years on end.
I would really hope that this is the ideal, like this would be the ideal state for everybody who's working in the business space. Because I did hear there's a lot of toxicity and stress and burnout and also rejection of emotions or lack of emotional awareness, lack of psychological safety that creates a lot of...
Julian Lorenzo Farrapeira (28:17)
Thank
Jiani (28:34)
inner turmoil for everyone and because the space is not safe, so it's not nowhere for them to share that. Even though sometimes companies provide some sort of employee assistance programs, it's just potentially an inventing space for them, but it's not solving the problems at the root cost level. So I find that a little bit ironic too.
So my next question is.
If you were to look forward in the next 10 years or so, how would you see well-being leadership play this role at the intersection between business innovation, future of technology, future of humanity, and just the kind of the whole paradigm?
that we will at this moment be jumping into in the next 10 years. How do you see the role of well-being leadership play in that country?
Julian Lorenzo Farrapeira (29:34)
Wow, that's a great question. When you were asking, I was thinking right in the middle, you know, right in the middle of all the business strategy.
Jiani (29:43)
Mm-hmm.
Julian Lorenzo Farrapeira (29:45)
I was thinking now, for example, we need a leadership program from 100 middle management leaders of a NASDAQ company, senior managers and directors. And we measure before and after the program to the participants and also to the people they lead that they are also leaders, are managers or senior managers, depending on the level. And we asked before and after,
And after the program, the people, elite, we asked, do you want to stay in the company, you know, more than two years, one year or two or less than one year? After this leadership program, 4.4 % they want to stay two years or more than in the beginning. This number maybe looks not so big, but 4.4%. This means that you're going to reduce the turnover when we talk about
30 % of annual salary of senior managers that they have a huge salary. This is a lot of money because then we did that for more than 100 leaders with similar numbers. We are talking about millions of dollars. So you are doing both. are, as Marshall Goldsmith said in one video, you are helping, making companies more productive.
and also, you know, making people feel better. So that's, I think this is the core. If we want to think about the future, because
now, if we see like 30 years ago, the value of the companies, if we take the standard and course, 80%, 85 % was tangible assets. Now this completely shift is 90 % of the value of the companies is intangible.
What does it mean? We are talking about, yeah, for sure, the brand, processes, but mainly people and leaders. What's the value, for example, of Google, Meta? It's the intellectual capital they have inside the organization. So if you don't merge this well-being and leadership concept, you can get results in the short term.
but not in the long term
So that's what we see in all the research, all the new generations coming and all this perspective that we should have this as a core strategy to then have the other things, the innovation, having this flourishing in the people and also having this business result because you then create something that is meaningful. If people feel better, they want to stay in your company, they work harder.
They are more engaged, they are more engaged, they deliver more, they are more productive. And then you go in this, you know, in this virtual cycle. But if you're not doing that, you're not going in the right way. And then it's easier. If you get, for example, data from Gallup of engagement, the numbers are terrific. You know, it's a lot of people not engaged at work. A lot of people.
This is a lot of money, you know?
Jiani (32:47)
Do you know how much?
What does the data say?
Julian Lorenzo Farrapeira (32:50)
The number I think is fully engaged. don't remember exactly right now because of three numbers, but I think it was 21%, like fully fully fully engaged. Maybe you can check it later, but it's like three parts, know, people is like fully fully engaged. Then you have people who is, you know, not so engaged with this people that is working, but it's like not working. And then you have...
Some people is in the toxic side, you know, is there but is not contributing, is like creating not a good culture, not good environment. And again, these people is costing a lot of money to the company because if you have somebody that is not engaged, he's going to be an example, not a good example for the culture you want to create. So everything starts, you know.
We have a huge problem with engagement, mental health problems. We need to take care of that. And if you see some research, well-being has impact also in performance of tasks. In creative performance, it's more than 30%. If we talk about engagement, 40%. So it's numbers.
Finally, you need to convince the leaders by showing the numbers and the numbers they don't lie.
Jiani (34:07)
That's wonderful. So I would assume, as you mentioned about the creative work, what do you see, how do you see wellbeing leadership impact the very act of innovation in terms of team innovation, company innovation, in time of great unpredictability, all the possibilities at the same time.
Julian Lorenzo Farrapeira (34:25)
Yeah, one of them, think the most important concept inside our framework is, you know, inside the last one, the fourth, the well-being strategically, is the concept of psychological safety. So Google, did, they're fantastic for sure in leadership analytics. They did a research about what makes a Google team successful. You know, the first one.
is psychological safety. Without this, you can't create successful teams.
When we talk about psychological safety, we are talking when people feel safe to express what they want, what they feel. To feel vulnerable is difficult for leaders to show vulnerability. And that's very important because if you want to innovate in a company, we are going to fail or make mistakes.
That's part of the innovation. And a lot of companies, they say that, okay, we want to innovate, but when somebody failed, you know, we are going there, we punish and we, and that's different when somebody, for example, make a mistake, you give feedback, make, do it again and do it again. That's different that the person is not understanding because you give feedback, but
Sometimes if you try something for the first time, sometimes, it's part of the
of innovation. So this psychological safety concept, I think is the core for wellbeing leadership and innovation. Without this, it is impossible to have a space where everybody can feel to take this risk. I remember I worked in a company.
and as a company leader. And one of the values was we are entrepreneurs and we take risks. And we were, you know, our development and the performance of the year, this value was measured. So in this culture, words allowed, okay, if you want to be an entrepreneur and be innovative, you need to take risks.
take risks sometimes, you fail and that's okay. You you encourage that. But a lot of companies, other companies, they say that, but they don't really do that. You know, so I think this is very, very important. know, if we want to create innovation, one of our values for something, well, the leadership is we challenge the status quo.
We don't want to do the same leadership programs that companies were doing the last five, 10, 20 years. It's not working anymore. You know, I did that and it's not working in this. So if we want to challenge the status quo, if we want to do the way leadership is done, sometimes we need to try and sometimes, you know, we fail, but it's okay. You know, if we want to be
innovative and create something different and meaningful.
Jiani (37:26)
So well-being leadership helps to cultivate psychological safety and psychological safety creates a fertile, nourishing space for risk takers to try things out. If they succeed, bravo. If they fail, that's okay. Pat on the back and let's continue. No punishment.
Beautiful. Yeah, it's like a incubator. You'll say so. So now let's move to as we approach to the end of our conversation. It's time flies. So if we were to talk about the magic, what when you were little, for example, when you were like 11 years old.
What did you enjoy creating or playing so much that time disappeared for you?
Julian Lorenzo Farrapeira (38:14)
So when I was younger, I loved playing basketball, but with 11, I started to be a coach of younger people, think, eight years old. I was quite young and always loved to develop people. And then I thought, I love more to train people to be a coach than actually play.
Jiani (38:29)
you
Julian Lorenzo Farrapeira (38:38)
And then I think this was for me was really important to realize what I want to do in my life. That's why I connected so well with Marshall Goldsmith, who is the number one leadership thinker, the unique two times number one leadership thinker in the world. Because I think we love developing people. It's something that's for me so natural since I was young that, you know.
And that's a great question because you remember me. You remember me, that's very important.
Jiani (39:04)
Hahaha
Beautiful.
And in your way of growing up and then leaving a company now, what role do you think childlike wonder plays in your path of continued growth and development as an entrepreneur?
Julian Lorenzo Farrapeira (39:26)
I think it's essential. Now I was talking about Marshall. So was in, know, some months ago in Nashville. He invited 30 people for a Train the Trainers program, you know, to continue his legacy. On the first day we meet him in his house. And...
I remember that Marshall Gosselin for me is yeah, he's my idol, know, somebody that's read his books, say, you know, and when he arrived to his place and he said, Oh, Julian, you know, this is my, all his books in different languages. And I remember I was like a child, you know, like, you know, I don't know when you go to Disney World or something like that. I was feeling like this, you know, I am in Disney right now.
So I think it's very important to have this, know, try to feel like that in the daily basis, you know, because it's not, it's going to be difficult to inspire other people if you, you know, if you're not having and connecting with these feelings of, okay, I am in Disney, I am going to enjoy this moment, you know? Yeah.
Jiani (40:33)
I'm just...
I think when I was able to connect great people like you, like all the guests, to me that's a Disney world for me. We're able to see so many different interesting faces, hear so many different interesting
So I feel you.
be in the Disney world. Forever. Hopefully.
Julian Lorenzo Farrapeira (41:03)
So I'm
very lucky that you love that to be here.
Jiani (41:08)
That's wonderful. So, what do you think overall is your magic then? As of now, we make sure. We always do.
Julian Lorenzo Farrapeira (41:17)
so I would say my, you know, my main strength, I think is to inspire leaders, you know, to be in their best version and to try to impact the most are as they can. So I think I also have this, I remember the director of my business, the business school where I studied an MBA. said, when you talk everybody all the time, listen, you know,
So I think this is my magic and that's why I work developing people. I love so much doing what I do. And I believe I have this mission in the world that is bringing these concepts and impact millions of leaders through well-being leadership. So thanks for giving me this space to be here and sharing a little bit more.
It's very, very special for me. Thanks, Jenny, for that.
Jiani (42:09)
Thank you, Julian, for coming to this space and co-creating this space for today. One last question. What would be one simple daily action that all leaders can do towards well-being leadership?
Julian Lorenzo Farrapeira (42:24)
You know, if we think about one action, you know, we have a matrix of high impact, low effort. I think that, you know, what has more impact with less effort, I think it's recognition. You know, if we see data, for example, from a sender form in a Harvard Business Review article, you know, when people are in the low 10 % of
you know, as in recognition, they are in the percentile 27 of engagement. When they are in the top 10 percent of in recognition, their team, they are in the percentile 79 in engagement. So what does it mean that the correlation between engagement and recognition is huge? And recognition is super easy. You know, we do that in our leadership training programs.
Jiani (43:15)
Hahaha
Julian Lorenzo Farrapeira (43:17)
I say, okay, we have two minutes. Take your mobile phone. It's the only time you can do that. And please recognize somebody from your team. I put some music, two minutes, and what people say, my God, what people is feeling right now in the other side. It's incredible. I always ask, do you think that this person is going to be more engaged or less engaged with you? Much more engaged. You know, how do you think these people is feeling right now?
he's feeling, you know, super happy because I spend some time to recognize his or her work. And, you know, when you lead, sometimes we think that leading, we need to do 1000 leader, 1000 things like perfect, but you need to do the basic really well. And the basic, one of the basic things is recognize your team.
Jiani (44:06)
and recognize ourselves.
Julian Lorenzo Farrapeira (44:08)
well that's very important yeah for sure for sure
Jiani (44:13)
Beautiful.
Thank you, for coming to this space to share your stories about well-being, leadership, share with us the evidence-based framework that you've developed, share with us all the numbers, the evidence, or the research that has been done in relation between well-being, leadership, and the ability for us to engage.
the ability for us to collaborate, the ability for us to avoid burnouts, and the ability for us to create sustainable results. He's a full, joyful, happy, fulfilled, content, super engaged state. And for people who would like to learn more about his work, Luke will be included in the show notes, so we really encourage you to get connected.
And I'm very grateful and very honored to be able to connect with you, Julian. And thank you so much for all these asynchronous communications that we've done behind the scenes over the question list and thinking of potential positionings of the questions. It's such a wonderful collaboration with you.
Julian Lorenzo Farrapeira (45:24)
For sure. So thank you very much. It was very, very special. I feel really, really comfortable and, you know, happy to share with you and the people of your podcast. So thanks. Thank you so much for inviting me. It was a pleasure.
Core Driver 1: Self-Awareness
The foundation begins with knowing yourself. Research from Richard Boyatzis shows that self-awareness correlates more strongly with leadership success than nearly any other factor. But true self-awareness means understanding your strengths, not just your weaknesses.
Most leaders believe success requires eliminating all weaknesses. Julian challenges this: "Outstanding leaders have great strengths. They don't have zero weaknesses." One senior vice president rose from junior analyst to executive over 20 years not by becoming perfect, but by identifying what she did brilliantly—developing leaders and connecting product to business—and leveraging those strengths.
When Julian asks directors and VPs why they reached their positions, everyone gives the same answer: because of their strengths.
Core Driver 2: Emotional Intelligence
Daniel Goleman's research reveals that 85% of leadership success depends on emotional intelligence, not technical skills. Yet many organizations treat emotions as unprofessional distractions rather than essential business intelligence.
David Caruso, who helped develop the emotional intelligence concept, noted that understanding people's emotions is the most important aspect of leadership. This translates to practical skills—giving meaningful recognition, delivering constructive feedback, and developing talent through emotional attunement.
Core Driver 3: Sustainable Results Through Alignment
The third core driver addresses a root cause of burnout: misaligned expectations. When leaders don't clearly communicate what they expect, work becomes endless. Team members operate without boundaries, never knowing when they've done enough.
The antidote is a leadership-as-coaching approach built on asking great questions and listening powerfully. "Sometimes leaders think that to communicate, you only need to speak," Julian notes. "You need to ask. You need to ask great questions and listen."
Core Driver 4: Strategic Wellbeing Implementation
The final core driver separates wellbeing leadership from traditional wellness programs. This isn't about gym memberships—it's about creating psychologically safe environments where people can perform at their best.
Google's research on successful teams identified psychological safety as the number one factor. Leaders must model wellbeing themselves, demonstrating that vulnerability isn't weakness and sustainable performance trumps short-term heroics.
From Framework to Practice
Theory matters little without implementation. Julian shares a powerful example: a top performer's results plummeted after three years of excellence. The manager prepared to fire him. Then Julian taught a simple question: "How do you feel?"
The talent revealed personal struggles he couldn't share in an environment that felt unsafe. With support, he returned to form. "If you don't know how to ask this question," Julian reflects, "maybe you need to fire somebody because you are not doing your role as a leader properly."
Early warning signs matter too. Ask team members to rate their energy from zero to ten. Someone consistently at a two is approaching burnout—exhaustion precedes crisis, creating a window for intervention.
The highest-impact, lowest-effort practice? Recognition. Leaders in the top 10% for recognition score in the 69th percentile for engagement, compared to just the 27th percentile for leaders in the bottom 10%.
The Future Is Intangible
Fifty years ago, 85% of company value came from tangible assets. Today, 90% is intangible—intellectual capital, brand, and people. This shift makes wellbeing leadership essential, not optional.
Oxford researchers found that the 100 companies with the best wellbeing practices outperformed standard market indices. Leaders can cling to outdated models that view wellbeing and performance as opposing forces, or embrace the evidence that they work best together in harmony.
⭐ Julian & MAGIC
Julian discovered his calling at age 11, not as a basketball player but as a coach to younger children. That early recognition—that he loved developing people more than competing himself—has shaped an extraordinary career. As CEO and Founder of Wellbeing Leadership, he has directly impacted more than 30,000 leaders across Fortune Global 500 and Nasdaq-listed companies including Adidas, Nubank, XP, and Stone.
Recognized as one of the Top 100 HR Personalities of 2025 and selected by Marshall Goldsmith as one of only 40 global leadership experts chosen to carry on his legacy, Julian's magic lies in inspiring leaders to see themselves clearly and act boldly—transforming thousands of organizations one question, one recognition, one aligned expectation at a time.
Creative Process
Discuss Potential Outlines: Human + ai
Create Initial Drafts & Iterate: Human + ai
Ensure Guest Alignment: Julian Lorenzo Farrapeira
Ensure Final Alignment: Dr. Jiani Wu
Initial Publication: Feb 20, 2026
Disclaimer:
AI technologies are harnessed to create initial content derived from genuine conversations. Human re-creation & review are used to ensure accuracy, relevance & quality.
